mpadapa
07-23 12:02 PM
vdlrao, I looked at the DHS data there seems to be lot of discrepancy in the EB and FB numbers shown in that document and the DOS statistics (http://www.travel.state.gov/visa/frvi/statistics/statistics_1476.html)
But if you look at the last page where they discuss the EB limits, the document self contradicts. For example they say 2007 EB limit is 147,148 but based on their Table 2 (page 3) the EB limit comes out to 143,771 ( 140K + (226K - 222,229)). Also they have a foot note saying that DOS sets the EB/FB limits.
I've a spreadsheet which has the calculated EB limit for FY (2003-2007), the numbers I arrived at is very close to those reported in the September bulletins. If U wanna take a look at it, please PM u'r email ID, I can send it to U.
mpadapa, I am getting 31,100 unused Family Based Visas for 2007 fiscal year from
http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/statistics/publications/LPR_FR_2007.pdf
.
DHS bulletin is not updated correctly like Employment Based AC21 VISAS? Please let me know.
But if you look at the last page where they discuss the EB limits, the document self contradicts. For example they say 2007 EB limit is 147,148 but based on their Table 2 (page 3) the EB limit comes out to 143,771 ( 140K + (226K - 222,229)). Also they have a foot note saying that DOS sets the EB/FB limits.
I've a spreadsheet which has the calculated EB limit for FY (2003-2007), the numbers I arrived at is very close to those reported in the September bulletins. If U wanna take a look at it, please PM u'r email ID, I can send it to U.
mpadapa, I am getting 31,100 unused Family Based Visas for 2007 fiscal year from
http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/statistics/publications/LPR_FR_2007.pdf
.
DHS bulletin is not updated correctly like Employment Based AC21 VISAS? Please let me know.
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logiclife
02-12 01:17 PM
I have seen this dog and pony show one too many times. Every year, people think that next year's quota of 140,000 will cause the dates for India and China to go forward in the October Bulletin. October will be the end of misery.
Each year, in October bulletin, for India/China EB3, the dates are either stagnant or they go back to 1998 or 1999.
The thing is, as long as there is this per-country quota rationing of green cards, ROW folks will keep moving to the HOV lane and each year, in Oct to Dec timeframe their dates will get current and they will get GCs.
And each year, the dates for India and China will keep yo-yoing between 1998 and 2002, will never move forward, because if per-country limits are applied to 140,000 greencards, then there is very very little leftover that flows to India/China.
So without an increase in Quota or without removal of per-country discrimination, nothing is going to happen either in Oct 2008 or Oct 2009 or Oct 2010. It will keep fluctuating between 1998 and 2002. That is the bracket for India and China.
Each year, in October bulletin, for India/China EB3, the dates are either stagnant or they go back to 1998 or 1999.
The thing is, as long as there is this per-country quota rationing of green cards, ROW folks will keep moving to the HOV lane and each year, in Oct to Dec timeframe their dates will get current and they will get GCs.
And each year, the dates for India and China will keep yo-yoing between 1998 and 2002, will never move forward, because if per-country limits are applied to 140,000 greencards, then there is very very little leftover that flows to India/China.
So without an increase in Quota or without removal of per-country discrimination, nothing is going to happen either in Oct 2008 or Oct 2009 or Oct 2010. It will keep fluctuating between 1998 and 2002. That is the bracket for India and China.
unseenguy
08-16 12:43 AM
Why should it be a surprise?
How do PoE officers know if he is a film star in some foreign language movies?
Even if they knew, why is SRK so special that he should not be checked?
There was an instance when a pop singer from India(Daler Mehdi) was accused of smugling illegal immigrants disguised as musicians. Point is, if somebody is a celebrity, that does not make him/her un touchable?
So shall we strip search Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton on their next visit to India? They can also be accused of bringing something illegal, isnt it?
How do PoE officers know if he is a film star in some foreign language movies?
Even if they knew, why is SRK so special that he should not be checked?
There was an instance when a pop singer from India(Daler Mehdi) was accused of smugling illegal immigrants disguised as musicians. Point is, if somebody is a celebrity, that does not make him/her un touchable?
So shall we strip search Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton on their next visit to India? They can also be accused of bringing something illegal, isnt it?
2011 Iveco Daily 65 C 18 K: Смесена
kondur_007
07-29 02:48 PM
Well, I think the scenario is different. It is somewhere inbetween those two thought processes:
1. They are counting on CP case; but not much. If you look in the past stats about EB cases processed via CP, it is usually a very small number (and this would just make sense: if you are doing EB green card, you will be working in US and will do AOS). CP cases can not be more than several hundreds.
2. The major hopes DOS has is on USCIS to process large number of cases. And they ARE capable of doing so; but only RANDOMLY (not in the order of PD or FIFO or anything like that). It is very unlikely that DOS will let USCIS waste any visa numbers. Because it is DOS's responsibility, not USCIS's. And that was main reasoning behind July Fiasco; where DOS wanted to prove that it is not DOS but USCIS who is responsible for the wastage (remember, there were some 60000 visa numbers unused at that time). This time, they are playing the game of "cooperation". DOS will advance dates only till USCIS can handle (not everything Current); and in exchange USCIS will use up all the numbers.
If USCIS can not show that they have used up at least 75% (or something in that range) of the remaining visa numbers (which are probably in the range predicted in this thread giver or take few thousands) by mid august, DOS will further advance dates in sept. If USCIS shows that they used up most of the numbers, dates may go back. It would not matter what the dates are in sept as the end result is the same: all the remaining visa numbers will be used (probably randomly) to people with PDs upto mid 2006.
I do not buy the "CP using numbers" theory from Ron or Murthy. It is all about allowing USCIS to use the numbers randomly and let them pick the "low hanging fruits" (as they usually like).
For the next fiscal year, they will move dates back to mid 2004 (just a wild guess), but I dont think it matters any way...(till the end of the fiscal year). USCIS will probably go in hibernation again till the last quarter of next year and the date will advance again dramatically (may be upto 2008) to let them use all the left over/spilled numbers.
1. They are counting on CP case; but not much. If you look in the past stats about EB cases processed via CP, it is usually a very small number (and this would just make sense: if you are doing EB green card, you will be working in US and will do AOS). CP cases can not be more than several hundreds.
2. The major hopes DOS has is on USCIS to process large number of cases. And they ARE capable of doing so; but only RANDOMLY (not in the order of PD or FIFO or anything like that). It is very unlikely that DOS will let USCIS waste any visa numbers. Because it is DOS's responsibility, not USCIS's. And that was main reasoning behind July Fiasco; where DOS wanted to prove that it is not DOS but USCIS who is responsible for the wastage (remember, there were some 60000 visa numbers unused at that time). This time, they are playing the game of "cooperation". DOS will advance dates only till USCIS can handle (not everything Current); and in exchange USCIS will use up all the numbers.
If USCIS can not show that they have used up at least 75% (or something in that range) of the remaining visa numbers (which are probably in the range predicted in this thread giver or take few thousands) by mid august, DOS will further advance dates in sept. If USCIS shows that they used up most of the numbers, dates may go back. It would not matter what the dates are in sept as the end result is the same: all the remaining visa numbers will be used (probably randomly) to people with PDs upto mid 2006.
I do not buy the "CP using numbers" theory from Ron or Murthy. It is all about allowing USCIS to use the numbers randomly and let them pick the "low hanging fruits" (as they usually like).
For the next fiscal year, they will move dates back to mid 2004 (just a wild guess), but I dont think it matters any way...(till the end of the fiscal year). USCIS will probably go in hibernation again till the last quarter of next year and the date will advance again dramatically (may be upto 2008) to let them use all the left over/spilled numbers.
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new2gc
09-04 01:53 PM
You dont even talk about my village even in your dreams.. Our village is much happier than before 5 years.. Its all becuase of YSR did for our village.
Looks like Your village might not have any resources to loot, so has shown some work which would have benefited few people (Like you).
As some other member mentioned that Jesus is angry on him, Not only Jesus, even Lord Venkateswara was also angry because even after converting to Christan, he took all the honors that chief of the state would get at Tirumala. Also, one can clearly see in Tirumala the way the whole administration behave during YSR regime compared to NTR/NCB regime. One can only experience, cannot explain..it will lengthy story...
His polices like, Govt money for Vatican trips and causing lot of grievence to the devotees in Tirumala should also be considered to evaluate his attitude, don't just go with TV news.
When Chiru campaigned for PPP, there were millions of people attended his meetings, but we all know what the result was.
So, just think like 1 corrupt politician down many left and move on. No more arguments.
Looks like Your village might not have any resources to loot, so has shown some work which would have benefited few people (Like you).
As some other member mentioned that Jesus is angry on him, Not only Jesus, even Lord Venkateswara was also angry because even after converting to Christan, he took all the honors that chief of the state would get at Tirumala. Also, one can clearly see in Tirumala the way the whole administration behave during YSR regime compared to NTR/NCB regime. One can only experience, cannot explain..it will lengthy story...
His polices like, Govt money for Vatican trips and causing lot of grievence to the devotees in Tirumala should also be considered to evaluate his attitude, don't just go with TV news.
When Chiru campaigned for PPP, there were millions of people attended his meetings, but we all know what the result was.
So, just think like 1 corrupt politician down many left and move on. No more arguments.
LostInGCProcess
08-18 09:43 PM
I usually just browse through these forums and I really appreciate the effort put in by the organizers. But this thread gave me an urge to respond and perhaps talk.
Don't ever be that Indian guy in the office. Be a smart global citizen.
Wow!!! Nice post. I like the last line you mentioned. :)
Don't ever be that Indian guy in the office. Be a smart global citizen.
Wow!!! Nice post. I like the last line you mentioned. :)
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akred
02-15 11:11 PM
oguinan,
Paragraph 1 of Article 1 establishes the definition of racial discrimination for the purpose of the document. Paragraphs 2 and 3 limit the operation of the convention. As to why paragraphs 2 & 3 were included, perhaps they were required to get countries to sign on to the convention.
Here's a better link. Read under Modern Racial Exclusion, excerpts of which I have posted below.
http://academic.udayton.edu/race/02rights/immigr09.htm
...similarly situated persons (e.g., siblings and children of U.S. citizens) may face radically different waits for immigration depending on their country of origin, with accompanying racial impacts.
The law created a new immigrant visa program that effectively represents affirmative action for white immigrants, a group that benefitted from preferential treatment under the national origins quota system until 1965. Congress, in an ironic twist of political jargon, established the "diversity" visa program, which though facially neutral prefers immigrants from nations populated primarily by white people.
The link to the CERD report is here. The convention does not address the country limit directly as the convention expressly does not apply in that area, but it does show that there is awareness about the discrimination faced by immigrants. http://www.unhchr.ch/tbs/doc.nsf/(Symbol)/6d8aee7e356e6498c1256d4e00557f3b?Opendocument
You can see that the UN panel is aware of the fact that racial discrimination manifests itself in disproportional representation (note the reference to the composition of the Supreme Court). It can be argued that the 7% country limit provides a pretext to discriminate against India/China/Mexico on the basis of ethnic or racial origin, and as such would run afoul of the convention.
Paragraph 1 of Article 1 establishes the definition of racial discrimination for the purpose of the document. Paragraphs 2 and 3 limit the operation of the convention. As to why paragraphs 2 & 3 were included, perhaps they were required to get countries to sign on to the convention.
Here's a better link. Read under Modern Racial Exclusion, excerpts of which I have posted below.
http://academic.udayton.edu/race/02rights/immigr09.htm
...similarly situated persons (e.g., siblings and children of U.S. citizens) may face radically different waits for immigration depending on their country of origin, with accompanying racial impacts.
The law created a new immigrant visa program that effectively represents affirmative action for white immigrants, a group that benefitted from preferential treatment under the national origins quota system until 1965. Congress, in an ironic twist of political jargon, established the "diversity" visa program, which though facially neutral prefers immigrants from nations populated primarily by white people.
The link to the CERD report is here. The convention does not address the country limit directly as the convention expressly does not apply in that area, but it does show that there is awareness about the discrimination faced by immigrants. http://www.unhchr.ch/tbs/doc.nsf/(Symbol)/6d8aee7e356e6498c1256d4e00557f3b?Opendocument
You can see that the UN panel is aware of the fact that racial discrimination manifests itself in disproportional representation (note the reference to the composition of the Supreme Court). It can be argued that the 7% country limit provides a pretext to discriminate against India/China/Mexico on the basis of ethnic or racial origin, and as such would run afoul of the convention.
2010 iveco-daily-65c18-veneto
legal_alien_007
07-10 02:24 PM
nicely written.. i wish u all the best
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at0474
12-13 01:05 PM
"If you read the history of immigration this country you will see that such measures are typically taken with restriction in mind not diversity."
--Any country's immigration policy has to have some control measures built into it. I cannot imagine any country opening its gates wide open for the entire world to migrate into her without any limitations. So the question is, whom to "restrict" and whom to allow? This leads to the same argument, do you see this "restriction" as discrimination? There are others who see as fair "reservation" for them.
"Diversity is the nice sounding cloak."
--True. Every concept has been used and abused.
"There is a definite fear that FB will bring in many mexican migrants ( "chain migration") and the country quota holds that back imho. you think it's because of indian programmers? It was made long before those existed. remember we are a minuscule number- don't feel so important- the programmers are about 2% of all immigrants. 11% is all EB, half are families, half again are techies- not all those are programmers. do the math."
--I did not say EB quota system was framed due to high influx of indian programmers. You missed the whole point.
"Also remember that 50,000 Gc are given a year by lottery for "diversity". as a result more bangladeshis get Gc in a year than indians on EB. so why do we need the country quota in EB again?"
--Good question. If we look at what qualifies a country to be included in the lottery program (oversubscription etc?), it would again lead to the "balancing" intent with regards to immigration.
"To the person bringing up caste system and fences, here is my proposal.
i am a physician, i am being held behind hoardes of techies who can easily have PD's much before mine since i am training and working longer and the J1 holds me back. 12 years here and no where in the line...so i should get a fast track too. let's have a cap for the techies...hey it looks great from my side of the fence...i'm sure you will agree that i should be pushed up the line."
--Precisely why I said your viewpoint would differ depending on which side of the fence you are.
"either it's wrong or right. the caste system is wrong, from every side of the fence. it may benefit some and hurt others. but it's wrong, wrong and wrong.
same for this country quota. sure it helps some, and looks good from "their side of the fence". that does not change the fact that it is wrong."
--You are opining that it is wrong. You cannot state that it is a fact.
"none of this is an argument for a legal approach. just responding to stuff here."
--Same here. I appreciate your response though.
--Any country's immigration policy has to have some control measures built into it. I cannot imagine any country opening its gates wide open for the entire world to migrate into her without any limitations. So the question is, whom to "restrict" and whom to allow? This leads to the same argument, do you see this "restriction" as discrimination? There are others who see as fair "reservation" for them.
"Diversity is the nice sounding cloak."
--True. Every concept has been used and abused.
"There is a definite fear that FB will bring in many mexican migrants ( "chain migration") and the country quota holds that back imho. you think it's because of indian programmers? It was made long before those existed. remember we are a minuscule number- don't feel so important- the programmers are about 2% of all immigrants. 11% is all EB, half are families, half again are techies- not all those are programmers. do the math."
--I did not say EB quota system was framed due to high influx of indian programmers. You missed the whole point.
"Also remember that 50,000 Gc are given a year by lottery for "diversity". as a result more bangladeshis get Gc in a year than indians on EB. so why do we need the country quota in EB again?"
--Good question. If we look at what qualifies a country to be included in the lottery program (oversubscription etc?), it would again lead to the "balancing" intent with regards to immigration.
"To the person bringing up caste system and fences, here is my proposal.
i am a physician, i am being held behind hoardes of techies who can easily have PD's much before mine since i am training and working longer and the J1 holds me back. 12 years here and no where in the line...so i should get a fast track too. let's have a cap for the techies...hey it looks great from my side of the fence...i'm sure you will agree that i should be pushed up the line."
--Precisely why I said your viewpoint would differ depending on which side of the fence you are.
"either it's wrong or right. the caste system is wrong, from every side of the fence. it may benefit some and hurt others. but it's wrong, wrong and wrong.
same for this country quota. sure it helps some, and looks good from "their side of the fence". that does not change the fact that it is wrong."
--You are opining that it is wrong. You cannot state that it is a fact.
"none of this is an argument for a legal approach. just responding to stuff here."
--Same here. I appreciate your response though.
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sreeni.k
06-12 06:13 PM
Dillip good luck with your new challenge man. I understand you are currently in a difficult situation hope you will come out of it. Just one note though. Having graduated from a top school doesnt give anybody a right to top pay check and job security. I myself an IIT grad with a PhD from US- currently with Intel. I was expecting everybody to lap me up right out of undergrad. All I got was a chance. I learnt my ways- u have to demonstrate your skills today and dont expect a 10 year old paper diploma to make your living. Anyway I am also in a 485 EB2 Q. I am not fretting though- if it comes its a bonus for me, but doesnt change anything for me. I will still live in same home, get same pay, drive same car and get my patents published with same skills. :D
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abhisec
07-29 05:25 PM
I doubt it. My sense is that USCIS has already processed most of EB2-I cases until early 2004 - based on approval trend seen on IV, Murthy Forum, and a ton of personal friends. If it goes back it may go back to Fall 2004 time frame.
I hope you are right ;)
I hope you are right ;)
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geevikram
06-14 05:45 PM
I guess my 9 months old prediction is coming true (off by a month).
http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/1049939-post209.html
Sachug22,
While I would love for your prediction to be true for the remaining three bulletins, I highly doubt that days will move past 2006, let alone may 07. Let us wait for 2 more months to see where you are.
Good effort though.
-V
http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/1049939-post209.html
Sachug22,
While I would love for your prediction to be true for the remaining three bulletins, I highly doubt that days will move past 2006, let alone may 07. Let us wait for 2 more months to see where you are.
Good effort though.
-V
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vinay0622
07-29 10:16 AM
Yes it can be corrected at this time. You can answer the RFE yourself and explain you mistake or ask your attorney to do so. I would suggest that contact your attorney so that you can prevent any future mistakes.
Thanks..Samay.
I appreciate, You took time to answer my question.
Thanks..Samay.
I appreciate, You took time to answer my question.
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antihero
03-27 05:18 PM
The great Indian Satta Market understands the nerve of the nation more accurately then others. And the buzz in the market is that a dark horse, who is not even in this group, will emerge as the next Indian PM.
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ebizash
07-27 02:18 PM
I get good monthly checks every month (more then $115), and they don't seem to bounce either. And good thing it increases. Don't need to google anything while I can get from credible sources.
Good luck then!! I really hope that you get to go to Peter Island one day..
By the way I realized while reading your reply that I had made a typo in my original message. The disclaimer claims that the average IBO makes $115 a YEAR not month.
Good luck then!! I really hope that you get to go to Peter Island one day..
By the way I realized while reading your reply that I had made a typo in my original message. The disclaimer claims that the average IBO makes $115 a YEAR not month.
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Legal
07-03 10:41 PM
documentation >to <verifying no US citizen worker was available for a given job) -
should have been documentation verifying
should have been documentation verifying
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vamsi_poondla
02-15 03:34 PM
I dont understand the whole point of discussion here ... What does the IV Senior Members think about this , The idea of a lawsuit to capture the loss immigrant visas, is not against USCIS, its against the system. Infact the USCIS should be on our side, as per the USCIS Ombudsman, Mr .
Atleast we should try , discussing and cribbing on the forum wont help.
Have you checked the latest news about USCIS Ombudsman's Mr. ? Here I am not talking on the behalf of senior members, if some leaders come forward, make efforts to sue USCIS, I don't doubt about the moral support from entire IV community including senior members.
Once it is law suit, USCIS is the system since it is what created this wastage of visa numbers.
Atleast we should try , discussing and cribbing on the forum wont help.
Have you checked the latest news about USCIS Ombudsman's Mr. ? Here I am not talking on the behalf of senior members, if some leaders come forward, make efforts to sue USCIS, I don't doubt about the moral support from entire IV community including senior members.
Once it is law suit, USCIS is the system since it is what created this wastage of visa numbers.
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gbof
08-15 10:32 PM
The original post was not about SRK detention.. but it was giving an idea of US immigration system. Well everyone here is singing praises of US immigration system.. if anyone of you will be detained if simillar name flashes on their computer and detained for hours and sent back then i hope you guys don't change your tune.. Thanks for all your reds.. looks like some people over here are interested in green or red.. crazy guys!!! go get a life.
I gave you green...
You know america will care and care only US interests...and will defend its actions. We all have suffered inexplicable delays in NC/BC (donot know if they honor 180 day rule) but who cares for immigrants....
...peace...
I gave you green...
You know america will care and care only US interests...and will defend its actions. We all have suffered inexplicable delays in NC/BC (donot know if they honor 180 day rule) but who cares for immigrants....
...peace...
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jayleno
09-23 11:57 AM
Sent the e-mail to the folks in my state.
Rb_newsletter
01-13 03:35 PM
I just heard from attorney there are lot of debate going on in AILA and they are trying to stop this memo from being implemented...they are the one going to lose more business then the body shops....
AILA should. I heard a lots of para legal staffs are already lost their jobs. Because there were less H1, and GC filings. Actually there is a huge economy based on immigration. If USCIS just changes the rules as they want that would affect lots of US citizens not just few immigrants.
Lets see which businesses/people are making money out of immigration related activities.
1) Attorney
2) Paralegal staff
3) Shipping guys (usps, fedex, etc)
4) Airlines (because immigrant workers has to visit their home country periodically)
5) Consulate
6) USCIS
7) Contractors in USCIS
8) Port of Entry/customs staffs
9) Notaries
10) Doctors/hospitals for getting medical clearance for 485, etc
11) Passport photo shops
12) Airport staffs
13) ....
AILA should. I heard a lots of para legal staffs are already lost their jobs. Because there were less H1, and GC filings. Actually there is a huge economy based on immigration. If USCIS just changes the rules as they want that would affect lots of US citizens not just few immigrants.
Lets see which businesses/people are making money out of immigration related activities.
1) Attorney
2) Paralegal staff
3) Shipping guys (usps, fedex, etc)
4) Airlines (because immigrant workers has to visit their home country periodically)
5) Consulate
6) USCIS
7) Contractors in USCIS
8) Port of Entry/customs staffs
9) Notaries
10) Doctors/hospitals for getting medical clearance for 485, etc
11) Passport photo shops
12) Airport staffs
13) ....
ryan
08-17 02:35 PM
It doesn't matter. The topic is about what the immigration officers are doing to the innocent civilians. In this case it happened to be SRK who everyone knows but it is happening to everybody. Just because his last name spelled as khan, can they interrogate every khan in this world?
Please, they do not pull aside every 'Khan' in the world. Yes, things seem OTT every now and then with an amount of drunken patriotism -- and you may come across an occasional "Voldemort" from the INS. However, can you place blame solely on homeland security? We live in a global world / economy of nearly 6 billion and every day visitors with trade of varied kind - surely you cannot expect the avg Joe at homeland security to know every zero talented b'wood hero out there?! I'd also urge you to look at the brighter side of the coin - of the various programs in place to have African Muslims, Arabs and the Iraqis being moved into the US, by giving them jobs, homes and permanent resident status. Likewise with Afghans, and the visa diversity program. These folks have names like Abdul, Osama, Khalid and Khan. So please, tone down the b'wood inspired sensationalism - view things in context.
When you choose to visit America or any foreign nation, national security & well being override celebrity status - period.
Now, I find it interesting, whilst detained at EWR, Shahrook Khan called the Indian Media in 'protest'. Perhaps positive PR for his new movie - 'My name is Khan' that's apparently about racial profiling in America ..hmmm?! Alright, now that is talent. Unethical, perhaps, nevertheless, talent, I think.
Please, they do not pull aside every 'Khan' in the world. Yes, things seem OTT every now and then with an amount of drunken patriotism -- and you may come across an occasional "Voldemort" from the INS. However, can you place blame solely on homeland security? We live in a global world / economy of nearly 6 billion and every day visitors with trade of varied kind - surely you cannot expect the avg Joe at homeland security to know every zero talented b'wood hero out there?! I'd also urge you to look at the brighter side of the coin - of the various programs in place to have African Muslims, Arabs and the Iraqis being moved into the US, by giving them jobs, homes and permanent resident status. Likewise with Afghans, and the visa diversity program. These folks have names like Abdul, Osama, Khalid and Khan. So please, tone down the b'wood inspired sensationalism - view things in context.
When you choose to visit America or any foreign nation, national security & well being override celebrity status - period.
Now, I find it interesting, whilst detained at EWR, Shahrook Khan called the Indian Media in 'protest'. Perhaps positive PR for his new movie - 'My name is Khan' that's apparently about racial profiling in America ..hmmm?! Alright, now that is talent. Unethical, perhaps, nevertheless, talent, I think.
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