BharatPremi
05-16 06:12 PM
Both Tamils and Singalese are our people. They migrated to Lanka about 2-3 thousand years back. Now the fighting is for stamping authority to rule one over the other.
2000 years back most of the south India speaks Tamil/Dravidian language. Malayalam is a new language made from Sanskrit and Tamil.
No one is sure who migrated to Lanka first. Tamils are still in India, so poeple think they migrated and now making a fight with the foreign country. It is wrong. See the links below to see the Singalese miration details.
We all have heard about great war of Kalinga in Which Samart Ashoka's army killed almost 2 hundred thosand people in a very short span of time. At the time thosands of people fled from Patliputra to current Odissa and many from that lot kept on pushing them till they found their last destination which is Sri Lanka. Decendents of these people today call them Sinhaleese. In the last 2 centuray British colonized Sri Lanka like India and ruled it. British take tamils to sri lanka for labor. Thus the ancestors of present day Sri Lankan's tamils have fairly recently migrated to Sri Lanka.
2000 years back most of the south India speaks Tamil/Dravidian language. Malayalam is a new language made from Sanskrit and Tamil.
No one is sure who migrated to Lanka first. Tamils are still in India, so poeple think they migrated and now making a fight with the foreign country. It is wrong. See the links below to see the Singalese miration details.
We all have heard about great war of Kalinga in Which Samart Ashoka's army killed almost 2 hundred thosand people in a very short span of time. At the time thosands of people fled from Patliputra to current Odissa and many from that lot kept on pushing them till they found their last destination which is Sri Lanka. Decendents of these people today call them Sinhaleese. In the last 2 centuray British colonized Sri Lanka like India and ruled it. British take tamils to sri lanka for labor. Thus the ancestors of present day Sri Lankan's tamils have fairly recently migrated to Sri Lanka.
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thepaew
12-13 04:04 PM
I dont think that the per-country cap on immigration is "Unconstitutional." It may not seem fair to those affected but it does not violate any article of the US consititution. The country has a right to regulate its borders; that is its right. We should try to argue that the policy is counter-productive and harmful - not that it is illegal.
gdilla
07-26 02:25 PM
I suspect being unemployed in any country is a crappy experience. Get a job first. There's lots of job sites online, check it out for yourself. Tap your network, etc. You can even setup your own company/consultancy and serve your US clients if you so desire.
But what about the jobs in Canada? How bad is it? Without a job, what is the point of quality of life etc.?
But what about the jobs in Canada? How bad is it? Without a job, what is the point of quality of life etc.?
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mariusp
03-28 12:52 PM
Sure http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/01jan20061800/edocket.access.gpo.gov/2006/06-1248.htm
I spoke to two immigration attorneys about how this may affect pending I-140 cases with the USCIS and this is the reply I received:
Response 1:
I am aware of the proposed rule (and the DOL link you sent me). But this applies only to pending labor certification applications and to approved labor certification applications not yet filed with USCIS. Neither one of these situations applies in your case. Of course the elimination of substitution is a proposed rule only and no one can tell exactly if and when and how the final rule will come out.
Response 2:
Highly unlikely that this change would affect a case that was already filed.
Just to be safe I will request to convert to PP.
I spoke to two immigration attorneys about how this may affect pending I-140 cases with the USCIS and this is the reply I received:
Response 1:
I am aware of the proposed rule (and the DOL link you sent me). But this applies only to pending labor certification applications and to approved labor certification applications not yet filed with USCIS. Neither one of these situations applies in your case. Of course the elimination of substitution is a proposed rule only and no one can tell exactly if and when and how the final rule will come out.
Response 2:
Highly unlikely that this change would affect a case that was already filed.
Just to be safe I will request to convert to PP.
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okuzmin
07-11 07:33 PM
Bud,
TN is just a modified H1B. You need to have an employer, your wife will be on a TD and worse, you gotta renew it every year across the border.
TN is not a modified H1B. With TN you do not have a dual intent: you cannot apply for a green card straight through TN status -- you would have to adjust your status to H1, L1, or any other immigrant status and only then apply for a green card.
TN is given for two years. You must be a Canadian citizen (not just a PR!) to qualify for TN status. Mexican citizens must obtain the actual TN visa, while Canadians don't. There are occupations that do not qualify for TN status.
Your wife can just as easily file for a TN in her occupation. Yes, you need an employer in the USA to get TN status, but I don't see a big problem with it. I work for a relatively small IT company (about 90 employees), and we hire people from anywhere in the USA and Canada. Our recruitment personnel conducts online and phone interviews, and a job offer can be made before the candidate ever visits our state. I'm sure many companies follow the same practice.
With TN you get stamped at the border (Canadian, not Mexican :)) -- and welcome (back) to the USA! If you follow the guidelines, it's very simple to get this status. I'm not sure which country gets your taxes, though. Since I'm quite a few years away from my Canadian citizenship, the information I currently have was sufficient to satisfy my curiosity about TN status. ;)
Another interesting idea about Canada-USA work/immigration popped up today in conversation with my immigration lawyer. If you have a managerial position in a company that has offices in USA and Canada, you can jump on L1 visa. This will let you file in EB-1 category if you want to go for a green card. There are some additional requirements: you need to work as a manager in the company's branch in Canada for at least a year; when you apply for a green card, the company will need to prove that the Canadian office will keep operating after you get your green card and leave Canada. Nevertheless, it's a possibility that is definitely better than EB-3 or EB-2.
TN is just a modified H1B. You need to have an employer, your wife will be on a TD and worse, you gotta renew it every year across the border.
TN is not a modified H1B. With TN you do not have a dual intent: you cannot apply for a green card straight through TN status -- you would have to adjust your status to H1, L1, or any other immigrant status and only then apply for a green card.
TN is given for two years. You must be a Canadian citizen (not just a PR!) to qualify for TN status. Mexican citizens must obtain the actual TN visa, while Canadians don't. There are occupations that do not qualify for TN status.
Your wife can just as easily file for a TN in her occupation. Yes, you need an employer in the USA to get TN status, but I don't see a big problem with it. I work for a relatively small IT company (about 90 employees), and we hire people from anywhere in the USA and Canada. Our recruitment personnel conducts online and phone interviews, and a job offer can be made before the candidate ever visits our state. I'm sure many companies follow the same practice.
With TN you get stamped at the border (Canadian, not Mexican :)) -- and welcome (back) to the USA! If you follow the guidelines, it's very simple to get this status. I'm not sure which country gets your taxes, though. Since I'm quite a few years away from my Canadian citizenship, the information I currently have was sufficient to satisfy my curiosity about TN status. ;)
Another interesting idea about Canada-USA work/immigration popped up today in conversation with my immigration lawyer. If you have a managerial position in a company that has offices in USA and Canada, you can jump on L1 visa. This will let you file in EB-1 category if you want to go for a green card. There are some additional requirements: you need to work as a manager in the company's branch in Canada for at least a year; when you apply for a green card, the company will need to prove that the Canadian office will keep operating after you get your green card and leave Canada. Nevertheless, it's a possibility that is definitely better than EB-3 or EB-2.
chanduv23
02-13 12:16 PM
its been a while i read the forums..
well... well !! chandubhai finally cooled down and talking wisdom :-)
well "the intent is the same" :) just following some wonderful advices from some good samaritans :)
But I will always stand on what I would like to see - What I want to see is UNITY among the community and I will be more happy if more and more people stand up and support the efforts.
well... well !! chandubhai finally cooled down and talking wisdom :-)
well "the intent is the same" :) just following some wonderful advices from some good samaritans :)
But I will always stand on what I would like to see - What I want to see is UNITY among the community and I will be more happy if more and more people stand up and support the efforts.
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nandakumar
05-11 07:14 PM
I never stated that I support LTTE.
I understand, how intolerant you are. What is wrong in protesting or showing resentment?
Wrong! Stop assuming dude. People are here because they need the Green Card. We don't take an oath to renounce loyalties when we get it. Of course your intention is clear and I am thankful that we Indians don't need to count on you. Of course, its interesting that you are quite happy being a US Citizen when it's the US which has called the LTTE a terrorist organization. Hmm, I hope you did your research. Anyway, too late. We don't need you anymore in India and like I said earlier, good riddance. All the best!
I understand, how intolerant you are. What is wrong in protesting or showing resentment?
Wrong! Stop assuming dude. People are here because they need the Green Card. We don't take an oath to renounce loyalties when we get it. Of course your intention is clear and I am thankful that we Indians don't need to count on you. Of course, its interesting that you are quite happy being a US Citizen when it's the US which has called the LTTE a terrorist organization. Hmm, I hope you did your research. Anyway, too late. We don't need you anymore in India and like I said earlier, good riddance. All the best!
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Jerrome
05-01 04:20 PM
What do you mean by some tamilians killed, almost 10 thousand people killed in 2 months.
Personally i don't believe 2000 terrorists could hold hostages of 3 or 4 lakh people for 2 years.
Do you know or read reports that daily 5000 bombs are dropped on civilian areas to make them to run towards the army.Do you know that the army poisoned the drinking water and people ran towards army without food or water and now they are in Nazi like camps.
It is not released by the LTTE but released by the UN.
No Second opinion about killing terrosists, but killing innocent people is not acceptable at any cost.
Personally i don't believe 2000 terrorists could hold hostages of 3 or 4 lakh people for 2 years.
Do you know or read reports that daily 5000 bombs are dropped on civilian areas to make them to run towards the army.Do you know that the army poisoned the drinking water and people ran towards army without food or water and now they are in Nazi like camps.
It is not released by the LTTE but released by the UN.
No Second opinion about killing terrosists, but killing innocent people is not acceptable at any cost.
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walking_dude
02-14 02:51 PM
Life's not simple. It's not A or B. It's usually A and B that succeeds. Like I mentioned in an earlier post going ahead with option A (lawsuit) closes option B ( meetings and negotiations).
Best approach is IV keeps option B (lobbying) open while a group that agrees option A is better continues to pursue it. There is a lot of support for this measure here. What it lacks is a convinced leadership! Once the leadership emerges and there is action on the ground, who knows, the skeptics may join too.
chandu...have u read the lawsuit outcome? do u still think that an administrative fix is easier to achieve than a lawsuit? lets say it comes down to either/or...either a lawsuit or an administrative fix...which one would IV support?
Best approach is IV keeps option B (lobbying) open while a group that agrees option A is better continues to pursue it. There is a lot of support for this measure here. What it lacks is a convinced leadership! Once the leadership emerges and there is action on the ground, who knows, the skeptics may join too.
chandu...have u read the lawsuit outcome? do u still think that an administrative fix is easier to achieve than a lawsuit? lets say it comes down to either/or...either a lawsuit or an administrative fix...which one would IV support?
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sumagiri
07-23 02:23 PM
I did some analysis on numbers used at thread
http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?t=20098
(post 1 and 60)
Used visa number is 120-130K (until July end including CP allocation for the year). If we assume there are 171k visa for this year (vldrao analysis) we are close to 40K visa pending.
Again no one has enough data to predict accurately the numbers, but it should be between 15-45K for Aug/Sept. Since EB1 and EB2-ROW was current most of the time, i would guess a large portion of this number should rollover to EB2 India/China.
There is an excellent analysis. Great job !. However , there is a little contradiction in the analysis. There are 171,000 visas (as said in the post) because there is a spill over from FB to EB. This spill over should also go to EB3. In that case EB3 should open up for its 28.6% share. If that happens, again there will be lot of recalculations. Got my point !.
Any way, one thing that we all agree is that EB2 got excellent share this year and has very good chance to become current soon. Being in EB2, that is a good for you & me.
http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?t=20098
(post 1 and 60)
Used visa number is 120-130K (until July end including CP allocation for the year). If we assume there are 171k visa for this year (vldrao analysis) we are close to 40K visa pending.
Again no one has enough data to predict accurately the numbers, but it should be between 15-45K for Aug/Sept. Since EB1 and EB2-ROW was current most of the time, i would guess a large portion of this number should rollover to EB2 India/China.
There is an excellent analysis. Great job !. However , there is a little contradiction in the analysis. There are 171,000 visas (as said in the post) because there is a spill over from FB to EB. This spill over should also go to EB3. In that case EB3 should open up for its 28.6% share. If that happens, again there will be lot of recalculations. Got my point !.
Any way, one thing that we all agree is that EB2 got excellent share this year and has very good chance to become current soon. Being in EB2, that is a good for you & me.
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arnab221
06-11 04:13 AM
At least Mr Oppenheimer has told the truth that it is curtains for EB2 and EB3 India and China and brought all the hopefuls to the ground . Passing CIR is a distant dream.
Thank you Mr Oppenheimer ! At least you had the guys to spell out the bitter truth , so that we could plan accordingly and plan our return .
Thank you Mr Oppenheimer ! At least you had the guys to spell out the bitter truth , so that we could plan accordingly and plan our return .
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franklin
02-14 06:51 PM
Question - where are all the numbers for historical visa allocation coming from?
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gc_lover
06-28 12:45 PM
"expecting retrogresson ....in first wk of July... " ??
I thought logiclife already clarified that can not and will not happen!!
Yes, he did clarify. But, when rumors like that make it to reputed attorney's website it will surely cause panic among people.
I thought logiclife already clarified that can not and will not happen!!
Yes, he did clarify. But, when rumors like that make it to reputed attorney's website it will surely cause panic among people.
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yabadaba
02-14 02:31 PM
http://www.ailf.org/lac/lac_lit_030402a.asp
WASHINGTON, D.C.- Immigrant advocates filed a national class action lawsuit in federal court today challenging the Immigration and Naturalization Service's (INS) misadministration of a law that provides persons granted asylum the right to live and work in the United States permanently. The suit, filed by the American Immigration Law Foundation and Dorsey & Whitney LLP, seeks to compel the INS to issue all allotted "green cards" fairly on a first-come, first-served basis.
Some 50 named plaintiffs represent tens of thousands of asylees throughout the country. The plaintiffs are all refugees who fled persecution in their home countries and were granted asylum in the United States. Under U.S. law, they may apply to become permanent residents, or so-called green card holders, of the United States. Congress has imposed a cap of 10,000 on the number of asylees who can attain permanent resident status each year.
The lawsuit alleges that the government failed to distribute more than 18,000 green cards in the last eight years while more than 60,000 asylees wait in legal limbo; failed to process applications on a first-come, first-served basis as required by law; and kept thousands of asylees on the wait list who are exempt from the cap. The lawsuit also challenges the government's practice of requiring asylees to obtain a new employment authorization card each year-at a cost that presents a hardship for many families-while they wait for their permanent status.
If 50 asylees managed to get enough money for action, 50 high-skilled immigrants can do it too. Otherwise I'll be greatly dissappointed. Lack of action is a killer. I was shoked to read walking_dude's post that nobody from MI volunteered to be a plaintiff in DL case. If people do not want to help themselves, IV won't be able to help them.
dude..lazycis...this is awesome precedent. it doesnt get easier than this....its exactly the same as what we are going after. there was wastage in numbers, thereby hardship in terms of renewals of eads
what type of profile would a class based plaintiff have? will any of the july filers be able to "qualify" as a plaintiff in this class action lawsuit
WASHINGTON, D.C.- Immigrant advocates filed a national class action lawsuit in federal court today challenging the Immigration and Naturalization Service's (INS) misadministration of a law that provides persons granted asylum the right to live and work in the United States permanently. The suit, filed by the American Immigration Law Foundation and Dorsey & Whitney LLP, seeks to compel the INS to issue all allotted "green cards" fairly on a first-come, first-served basis.
Some 50 named plaintiffs represent tens of thousands of asylees throughout the country. The plaintiffs are all refugees who fled persecution in their home countries and were granted asylum in the United States. Under U.S. law, they may apply to become permanent residents, or so-called green card holders, of the United States. Congress has imposed a cap of 10,000 on the number of asylees who can attain permanent resident status each year.
The lawsuit alleges that the government failed to distribute more than 18,000 green cards in the last eight years while more than 60,000 asylees wait in legal limbo; failed to process applications on a first-come, first-served basis as required by law; and kept thousands of asylees on the wait list who are exempt from the cap. The lawsuit also challenges the government's practice of requiring asylees to obtain a new employment authorization card each year-at a cost that presents a hardship for many families-while they wait for their permanent status.
If 50 asylees managed to get enough money for action, 50 high-skilled immigrants can do it too. Otherwise I'll be greatly dissappointed. Lack of action is a killer. I was shoked to read walking_dude's post that nobody from MI volunteered to be a plaintiff in DL case. If people do not want to help themselves, IV won't be able to help them.
dude..lazycis...this is awesome precedent. it doesnt get easier than this....its exactly the same as what we are going after. there was wastage in numbers, thereby hardship in terms of renewals of eads
what type of profile would a class based plaintiff have? will any of the july filers be able to "qualify" as a plaintiff in this class action lawsuit
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breddy2000
09-04 12:29 PM
You and me are just another free loaders. What IV is going to lose if move out. add some value before you start threatening.:D
I'm not a free loader like you....Have contributed and still want to contribute...Its just that I cancelled my CC(the source of funds) that I need to reactivate.
I'm not a free loader like you....Have contributed and still want to contribute...Its just that I cancelled my CC(the source of funds) that I need to reactivate.
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redcard
02-19 04:22 PM
Even US Ph D does not mean EB1. I know top 60 Schools in which fresh Ph D's (for Asst Prof) apply for EB2.
I don't know if any US MS will go through EB1.
What you are talking here is the Eb1-EA category.. and not the general EB1 category..
The EB1 Category is primarily meant for inter company transfers. Most of the people who qualify to get GC under this category come to US through the inter company transfer route and are primarily on L1-A work visa. Folks under L1-A do not require a labor certification and directly file I-140 /485 unlike people who come on L1-b visa which is also inter company transfer and requires a person to file a labor certification in US and then file GC under Eb2 or Eb3 as the case may be.
It�s surprising that Eb1 is current for India. Going by the facts.. the top 3 IT companies had shipped most of their project folks infact every other person to US under L1-A in the last few years when H1-b was under scrutiny for these companies. Most of these people who came under L1-A should have applied for GC under Eb1 which should have retrogressed the dates for EB1 also. The only logical reason for this that these companies are being very selective in doing GC now unlike in the past when a lot of people had got GC under this category.. and the date for EB1 for India had retrogressed in beginning of 2006..
That apart the other reason why this category is current is that most of the staffing companies aka.. body shoppers cannot use this route to get people to US.. because they need to have full-fledged profitable operations overseas�. and the person being sponsored should have atleast worked for 365 days outside US for the company. The consulates do a complete check before giving an authorization under L1-A or L1-B category..
I don't know if any US MS will go through EB1.
What you are talking here is the Eb1-EA category.. and not the general EB1 category..
The EB1 Category is primarily meant for inter company transfers. Most of the people who qualify to get GC under this category come to US through the inter company transfer route and are primarily on L1-A work visa. Folks under L1-A do not require a labor certification and directly file I-140 /485 unlike people who come on L1-b visa which is also inter company transfer and requires a person to file a labor certification in US and then file GC under Eb2 or Eb3 as the case may be.
It�s surprising that Eb1 is current for India. Going by the facts.. the top 3 IT companies had shipped most of their project folks infact every other person to US under L1-A in the last few years when H1-b was under scrutiny for these companies. Most of these people who came under L1-A should have applied for GC under Eb1 which should have retrogressed the dates for EB1 also. The only logical reason for this that these companies are being very selective in doing GC now unlike in the past when a lot of people had got GC under this category.. and the date for EB1 for India had retrogressed in beginning of 2006..
That apart the other reason why this category is current is that most of the staffing companies aka.. body shoppers cannot use this route to get people to US.. because they need to have full-fledged profitable operations overseas�. and the person being sponsored should have atleast worked for 365 days outside US for the company. The consulates do a complete check before giving an authorization under L1-A or L1-B category..
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conchshell
05-29 03:14 PM
I guess all the euphoria we had last year because of EB1 spill over is coming to an end. People who play by rule and wait suffer the most, while people who are always on the look to find "innovative ways" get their GC faster. I remember, one of my friend who did a labor substitution got his GC many years before. But at the same time, he took the risk of joining a consulting firm, while I was more inclined to remain under the so called safety net of a big incorporation. I guess the more risk you take, more rewards you get (and sometimes get completely screwed too!!)
However, we did a nice efforts last year to predict the visa bulletins. There was this guy vdlrao who did an impressive calculation and declared that EB2 will be current in an year. Well, its more than an year and what we have is worst than we had last year. I can only sympathies with EB3 guys, I don't know what to call it .. may be karma in previous birth.
But my mute point is that we almost always create a false hope for us. First we predicted that EB2 will be current in one year, later on our whole legal immigrant community was nurturing the dream that Mr. Obama will win and his first executive order will be to ship GC's via overnight fedex. We overlooked that even though immigration is looking bad, but reforms in this area is a trailing priority for the new administration. Infighting within EB2/EB3 and various language speaking people is nothing new for us.
Candidly speaking, neither we have seen any bright idea coming forward from us, nor people are willing to join hands and fight for their natural rights. So coming back to the original point, what's wrong if someone instead of depending on immigration forums, and "ethically" waiting in line, takes a little risk and gets his/her GC faster. Be it a labor substitution, or a guy going back to India and coming back as a Manager in EB1 category. Please remember that as long as its happening under the rules, its neither back door, nor illegal, or unethical.
My 2 cents.
However, we did a nice efforts last year to predict the visa bulletins. There was this guy vdlrao who did an impressive calculation and declared that EB2 will be current in an year. Well, its more than an year and what we have is worst than we had last year. I can only sympathies with EB3 guys, I don't know what to call it .. may be karma in previous birth.
But my mute point is that we almost always create a false hope for us. First we predicted that EB2 will be current in one year, later on our whole legal immigrant community was nurturing the dream that Mr. Obama will win and his first executive order will be to ship GC's via overnight fedex. We overlooked that even though immigration is looking bad, but reforms in this area is a trailing priority for the new administration. Infighting within EB2/EB3 and various language speaking people is nothing new for us.
Candidly speaking, neither we have seen any bright idea coming forward from us, nor people are willing to join hands and fight for their natural rights. So coming back to the original point, what's wrong if someone instead of depending on immigration forums, and "ethically" waiting in line, takes a little risk and gets his/her GC faster. Be it a labor substitution, or a guy going back to India and coming back as a Manager in EB1 category. Please remember that as long as its happening under the rules, its neither back door, nor illegal, or unethical.
My 2 cents.
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srikanth
07-11 06:23 PM
Hi congrats and good luck !!!
but, remember Once an American Always an American !!!
Live free or Die !!!
Please, do come back , when they fix immigration system... America does need skilled talented professionals like you to compete against outsourcing in a flat world.
and remember Canada does not yet has a professional football team, go patriots !!!
but, remember Once an American Always an American !!!
Live free or Die !!!
Please, do come back , when they fix immigration system... America does need skilled talented professionals like you to compete against outsourcing in a flat world.
and remember Canada does not yet has a professional football team, go patriots !!!
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alisa
02-14 07:03 PM
If you google retrogression, IV doesn't show up until page 2.
Is there anyway we can change this? So that IV is the first link that shows up? Anyway know about this.
Is there anyway we can change this? So that IV is the first link that shows up? Anyway know about this.
Lasantha
12-14 04:48 PM
I did not mean sector. I was refering to his statement about people from one country monopolizing the visas.
I am sorry but I still cannot see how a 7% per country upper limit criteria allows any one sector (say IT) from monopolizing all the available visas
I am sorry but I still cannot see how a 7% per country upper limit criteria allows any one sector (say IT) from monopolizing all the available visas
breddy2000
09-04 07:47 PM
dealsnet,
Don�t assume that things will work like they work in YSR regime.
If you think that, the discussion does not make any sense to you then keep away. You are assuming that IMV has compromised security. FYI, this is not a YSR forum, nor it his jagir to do a security compromise.
Wow Mr. Chandu.....Procliaming that he is has access to Admin rights and saying that he is not compromising on the security aspect as this is not YSR forum.....
This AH has revealed someones full name publicly where no one knows how to do that...except Admins....
Thats it Guys.......I'm out of this....
If I'm CHANDUV23, I would have retaliated from my posts so far...Looks like "_TrueFacts" is more offended than "CHANDUV23" offcourse we know both are same.....
Hats off Man....
Don�t assume that things will work like they work in YSR regime.
If you think that, the discussion does not make any sense to you then keep away. You are assuming that IMV has compromised security. FYI, this is not a YSR forum, nor it his jagir to do a security compromise.
Wow Mr. Chandu.....Procliaming that he is has access to Admin rights and saying that he is not compromising on the security aspect as this is not YSR forum.....
This AH has revealed someones full name publicly where no one knows how to do that...except Admins....
Thats it Guys.......I'm out of this....
If I'm CHANDUV23, I would have retaliated from my posts so far...Looks like "_TrueFacts" is more offended than "CHANDUV23" offcourse we know both are same.....
Hats off Man....
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