chantu
07-21 06:58 PM
Total (EB1+EB2) from 1998 to 2007 --> 35737, 23401 , 47821, 84222, 78484, 29859, 63825, 107328, 58871, 70859
So IN THE WORST CASE the total (EB1+ EB2) Visas for 2008 are
48934 + 48934 + 11,148 + 2,000 = 111,016
IN THE BEST CASE, ASSUMING USCIS USES ALL 28,795 unused VISAS of AC21 FOR 2008 AND THERE WOULD BE 5,000 UNUSED EB4 VISAS, THE TOTAL EB1 AND EB2 VISAS FOR 2008 ARE GOING TO BE 111,016 +3,000(EB4)+ 2*(28,795/3) = 111,016 +3,000+19196 = 133,212
----------------------------------
Type and class of admission 1998-- 1999-- 2000-- 2001-- 2002-- 2003-- 2004-- 2005-- 2006-- 2007
Employment-based preferences 77,413-- 56,678-- 106,642--178,702--173,814--81,727--155,330--246,877--159,081--162,176
First: Priority workers 21,375-- 14,844-- 27,566-- 41,672-- 34,168-- 14,453-- 31,291-- 64,731-- 36,960-- 26,697
I am amazed by your calculations and how much effort you put into this. What is the conclusion come october. EB2 I will move fwd or will be current or will be retrogressed?
So IN THE WORST CASE the total (EB1+ EB2) Visas for 2008 are
48934 + 48934 + 11,148 + 2,000 = 111,016
IN THE BEST CASE, ASSUMING USCIS USES ALL 28,795 unused VISAS of AC21 FOR 2008 AND THERE WOULD BE 5,000 UNUSED EB4 VISAS, THE TOTAL EB1 AND EB2 VISAS FOR 2008 ARE GOING TO BE 111,016 +3,000(EB4)+ 2*(28,795/3) = 111,016 +3,000+19196 = 133,212
----------------------------------
Type and class of admission 1998-- 1999-- 2000-- 2001-- 2002-- 2003-- 2004-- 2005-- 2006-- 2007
Employment-based preferences 77,413-- 56,678-- 106,642--178,702--173,814--81,727--155,330--246,877--159,081--162,176
First: Priority workers 21,375-- 14,844-- 27,566-- 41,672-- 34,168-- 14,453-- 31,291-- 64,731-- 36,960-- 26,697
I am amazed by your calculations and how much effort you put into this. What is the conclusion come october. EB2 I will move fwd or will be current or will be retrogressed?
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_TrueFacts
09-03 11:53 PM
With your utmost stupidity!!!!!
Anyway thanks for the Humor from your stupidity...
If you had a laugh on my post good for you. Should have given you some relief from YSR's death. I have been laughing, smiling and eating sweets since I knew the news.
Anyway thanks for the Humor from your stupidity...
If you had a laugh on my post good for you. Should have given you some relief from YSR's death. I have been laughing, smiling and eating sweets since I knew the news.
Ramba
08-17 03:48 PM
May be that immigration officer might have seen his stupid movie(s) and really got irritated. Finally when he got a chance, he let out his frustration.
Good:) joke..
Good:) joke..
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rkg000
09-05 08:42 PM
Yo breddy2000, nobody is calling you names man, but you are getting personal. Is YSR your father ?????.
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breddy2000
09-04 03:54 PM
If this thread (forum) was a court room. It would have been declared by Judge that YSR is indeed the most corrupt politician AP had and pending further investigation all the occupied & grabbed lands, wealth be ordered to pay to the victims. In addition, the Judge would put a life time ban his Son from active politics.
I hope all posters, readers will condemn corruption and blood politics and see US system (for we being in US) as an example for India. No one can better understand American system than us and how it can be modulated to fit into India.
If this was about you being having admin previledges,you wud have been taken to trial for misusing this board.....AH...
I hope all posters, readers will condemn corruption and blood politics and see US system (for we being in US) as an example for India. No one can better understand American system than us and how it can be modulated to fit into India.
If this was about you being having admin previledges,you wud have been taken to trial for misusing this board.....AH...
nk2006
10-03 11:41 AM
Hello Friends and my fellow GC awaiters..
Is it worth taking the risk and go with the labor substitution?
The second question/advice I'd like from you is:
If I go back to the same company after 6 months because of some issue with the labor can I still preserve my 2003 PD?
1MoreDesi !
First of all couple of things: (i) As of now there is no exemption for master degree holders (either from US or outside). There are provisions in SKIL bill and CIR but as you might know already they havnt yet passed in the congress and there is no gaurantee if/when they will be passed. (ii) Labor substitution is available now - this can go away or can stay because of large number of comments.
I can understand your dilemma. I was in a similar situation last year. My new employer "assured" me labor sub. But after a few months they backtracked saying the lawyer thinks that it wont match with my skills etc. and some such technicalities. So be very careful/particular about if your new employer will use substitution for sure. Next thing to consider (actually most important one in ideal circumstances) is which job is in-line with your future plans and which one you like the most. If your present one is very good and you are very happy there - then I think its worth staying and hope for the best in the coming bills. If you think both are of same nature then take the sub (while maintaining a good relations with old employer) and get the greencard early. In my case I left a job that I loved the most and was in line with my future plans - thinking that if I get GC early it will ease my tension and sleep better in nights and hoping that my new employer would do everything they mentioned before joining there. Now they didnt give me the sub (but are applying in PERM) and my previous employer situation is also changed and are in a hiring freeze (taking me back is now considered a new hiring) - so I am feeling stuck and unhappy. I am posting this just so you are aware of possible risks. Hope this helps.
Is it worth taking the risk and go with the labor substitution?
The second question/advice I'd like from you is:
If I go back to the same company after 6 months because of some issue with the labor can I still preserve my 2003 PD?
1MoreDesi !
First of all couple of things: (i) As of now there is no exemption for master degree holders (either from US or outside). There are provisions in SKIL bill and CIR but as you might know already they havnt yet passed in the congress and there is no gaurantee if/when they will be passed. (ii) Labor substitution is available now - this can go away or can stay because of large number of comments.
I can understand your dilemma. I was in a similar situation last year. My new employer "assured" me labor sub. But after a few months they backtracked saying the lawyer thinks that it wont match with my skills etc. and some such technicalities. So be very careful/particular about if your new employer will use substitution for sure. Next thing to consider (actually most important one in ideal circumstances) is which job is in-line with your future plans and which one you like the most. If your present one is very good and you are very happy there - then I think its worth staying and hope for the best in the coming bills. If you think both are of same nature then take the sub (while maintaining a good relations with old employer) and get the greencard early. In my case I left a job that I loved the most and was in line with my future plans - thinking that if I get GC early it will ease my tension and sleep better in nights and hoping that my new employer would do everything they mentioned before joining there. Now they didnt give me the sub (but are applying in PERM) and my previous employer situation is also changed and are in a hiring freeze (taking me back is now considered a new hiring) - so I am feeling stuck and unhappy. I am posting this just so you are aware of possible risks. Hope this helps.
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dilber
07-16 03:37 AM
Some one has done a very good analysis in this thread.
http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4285&page=107
Here is copy and paste of the post by gcobessesed
----------------------------------
Reading this post and the Ron Gotcher numbers, I see some answers for the pending India backlog number question and a silver lining for EB2.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drirshad View Post
(Quoting Ron Gotcher) The CIS backlog does not appear to be as serious as I had been told previously. Rather than 600,000 pending employment based AOS cases, it is likely less than 400,000 pending cases.
Quote:
Indian applicants make up approximately 40 to 45 per cent of the entire employment based quota backlog
Therefore, about 160,000 applications are pending for India!
As we have seen before, EB3 and EB2 are almost the same proportion for India with EB3 being slightly higher. So, about 85,000 for EB3 and 75,000 for EB2 are pending.
I am very confident that EB-2 india will become current in about 14-18 months.
I disagree with the underlined part before the visa numbers started to move fast in June and The July bulletin EB2 was at Jan 03 and then at Apr 04 but EB3 was at May 01 and then at June 2003 so there will me more like 60~65 percent of Eb3 filers so for calculating EB2 movements we should take this into account as well. So if USCIS does end up giving all the spillover numbers to the retro cuntries in EB2 then I have to agree with Vdlrao's analysis that there will not be much retro in India in the next FY and by the end of next FY it might even become close to current.
http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4285&page=107
Here is copy and paste of the post by gcobessesed
----------------------------------
Reading this post and the Ron Gotcher numbers, I see some answers for the pending India backlog number question and a silver lining for EB2.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drirshad View Post
(Quoting Ron Gotcher) The CIS backlog does not appear to be as serious as I had been told previously. Rather than 600,000 pending employment based AOS cases, it is likely less than 400,000 pending cases.
Quote:
Indian applicants make up approximately 40 to 45 per cent of the entire employment based quota backlog
Therefore, about 160,000 applications are pending for India!
As we have seen before, EB3 and EB2 are almost the same proportion for India with EB3 being slightly higher. So, about 85,000 for EB3 and 75,000 for EB2 are pending.
I am very confident that EB-2 india will become current in about 14-18 months.
I disagree with the underlined part before the visa numbers started to move fast in June and The July bulletin EB2 was at Jan 03 and then at Apr 04 but EB3 was at May 01 and then at June 2003 so there will me more like 60~65 percent of Eb3 filers so for calculating EB2 movements we should take this into account as well. So if USCIS does end up giving all the spillover numbers to the retro cuntries in EB2 then I have to agree with Vdlrao's analysis that there will not be much retro in India in the next FY and by the end of next FY it might even become close to current.
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acecupid
07-17 12:03 PM
Is it accurate to say that new way of allocating spill over visas effectively acheive same effect as eliminiating country limits?
I suppose the new way of allocation has similar effect to eliminating country limits within a category i.e. EB1 or EB2 or EB3 but not across the board
I suppose the new way of allocation has similar effect to eliminating country limits within a category i.e. EB1 or EB2 or EB3 but not across the board
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dealsnet
05-13 10:21 AM
Both Tamils and Singalese are our people. They migrated to Lanka about 2-3 thousand years back. Now the fighting is for stamping authority to rule one over the other.
2000 years back most of the south India speaks Tamil/Dravidian language. Malayalam is a new language made from Sanskrit and Tamil.
No one is sure who migrated to Lanka first. Tamils are still in India, so poeple think they migrated and now making a fight with the foreign country. It is wrong. See the links below to see the Singalese miration details.
I am not a Tamil or Singalese. We cannot say Tamils went to Lanka and asking for homeland. The truth is both Tamils and Singalese migrated from India. May be Tamils went to Lanka before the Singalese. LTTE is a terrorist organization, but it gained popularity because of Singalese neglect of Tamils. I don't think the problem can be resolve through military means. The war will change from conventional to gorrilla within this year.
Only political solution can bring peace.
Read these historical facts about the singala migration.
http://www.lankalibrary.com/books/sinhala_history.htm
http://www.sinhaya.com/begining.htm
http://www.country-data.com/cgi-bin/query/r-13173.html
2000 years back most of the south India speaks Tamil/Dravidian language. Malayalam is a new language made from Sanskrit and Tamil.
No one is sure who migrated to Lanka first. Tamils are still in India, so poeple think they migrated and now making a fight with the foreign country. It is wrong. See the links below to see the Singalese miration details.
I am not a Tamil or Singalese. We cannot say Tamils went to Lanka and asking for homeland. The truth is both Tamils and Singalese migrated from India. May be Tamils went to Lanka before the Singalese. LTTE is a terrorist organization, but it gained popularity because of Singalese neglect of Tamils. I don't think the problem can be resolve through military means. The war will change from conventional to gorrilla within this year.
Only political solution can bring peace.
Read these historical facts about the singala migration.
http://www.lankalibrary.com/books/sinhala_history.htm
http://www.sinhaya.com/begining.htm
http://www.country-data.com/cgi-bin/query/r-13173.html
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rajsenthil
09-04 05:57 AM
"Jayapaul Reddy Vadicherla" This is to warn you on any personal disturbing mesgs
Mr. or Mrs, so called "TrueFacts", you must be ashamed of your own thoughts. On seeing this thread, you created a fake account and became a keyboard warrior. Why? What is your other avatar? Are you suffering from multiple personality syndrome?
I expect to have little decency from "intellectuals" (pseudo?) to have some respect or atleast ignore a person who died. If you dont have that decency and let out your anger on a dead person, hehe, you all must be a real "BRAVE" person.
P.S: If it helps, I am not from AP but from TN. I have lot of good friends from AP and want to share their feelings. I really don't care if Advani, Vajpayee, Sonia or Manmohan, live or die but my decency prevents criticizing them after death.
Mr. or Mrs, so called "TrueFacts", you must be ashamed of your own thoughts. On seeing this thread, you created a fake account and became a keyboard warrior. Why? What is your other avatar? Are you suffering from multiple personality syndrome?
I expect to have little decency from "intellectuals" (pseudo?) to have some respect or atleast ignore a person who died. If you dont have that decency and let out your anger on a dead person, hehe, you all must be a real "BRAVE" person.
P.S: If it helps, I am not from AP but from TN. I have lot of good friends from AP and want to share their feelings. I really don't care if Advani, Vajpayee, Sonia or Manmohan, live or die but my decency prevents criticizing them after death.
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mallu
02-16 01:50 AM
......
When a category becomes "Unavailable" it means that the entire annual supply for that category has been used up for that fiscal year (which ends Sept 2008). Given the degree of the EB-3 ROW retrogression, I very very much doubt there will be ANY spillover from ROW to India. At present, DOS plans to move EB-2 India only if EB-1 India has excess visas. The quota for for EB-1 India is 2803 (including dependents) in any fiscal year. So let us consider some scenarios -- say half the EB-1 India are available, so 1401 are given to EB-2 India -- do I think there are 1401 EB-2 India applicants with dependents ahead of me -- average family size of 2.2 means approx 636 applicants? Yep! No doubt about it! Hell I'm sure that there are 2803 EB-2 India applicants ahead of me.
....
Suppose the admin fix to recapture 'lost' visas is a success. How many will India Eb2 get out of that ? May be 5000 ?
One really needs to know the number of India Eb2 applicants pending in each year ( of PD ) . If it iturns out , say , there are 25000 I-485 applications with PD up to year 2002, then ?!
Will a USCIS customer service rep be able to help us with this question :
"Sir/Madam how many India EB2 applicants are waiting , with PD earlier than mine ? " .
When a category becomes "Unavailable" it means that the entire annual supply for that category has been used up for that fiscal year (which ends Sept 2008). Given the degree of the EB-3 ROW retrogression, I very very much doubt there will be ANY spillover from ROW to India. At present, DOS plans to move EB-2 India only if EB-1 India has excess visas. The quota for for EB-1 India is 2803 (including dependents) in any fiscal year. So let us consider some scenarios -- say half the EB-1 India are available, so 1401 are given to EB-2 India -- do I think there are 1401 EB-2 India applicants with dependents ahead of me -- average family size of 2.2 means approx 636 applicants? Yep! No doubt about it! Hell I'm sure that there are 2803 EB-2 India applicants ahead of me.
....
Suppose the admin fix to recapture 'lost' visas is a success. How many will India Eb2 get out of that ? May be 5000 ?
One really needs to know the number of India Eb2 applicants pending in each year ( of PD ) . If it iturns out , say , there are 25000 I-485 applications with PD up to year 2002, then ?!
Will a USCIS customer service rep be able to help us with this question :
"Sir/Madam how many India EB2 applicants are waiting , with PD earlier than mine ? " .
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cableman
05-10 09:29 PM
Thanks cableman.
I did read that part and hence my question was if I am in the fourth/fifth year of my CA PR when I decide to go to CA, will I be allowed at least in the country.
Another question was if I am in my 4th/5th year and know that it might take me another year before I go to CA, can I apply for CA PR again, even when I already have my CA PR OR if I apply for my CA PR immediately after my current CA PR expires, would I get it again (assuming I have the necessary points)
Thanks again to everyone who tries to shed some light.
Be honest, I don't know the real answers. You should find a lawyer to discuss this. I just share my thoughts. For your first question. I guess you should have no problem to enter Canada as long as your Maple card is still valid. However, I think when you renew your Maple card, you will have problem. For your second question. I think you can't re-apply PR as long as you still have the PR status. I think you may have to wait until your Maple card expires. I don't know the successful rate of re-applying PR. Enough point is one consideration, your intent to stay will be another consideration. I will be surprised if the immigration officer won't question you why you gave up the last PR status. You must prepare a good answer. Let me put in this way. Consider yourself is the immigration officer, will you question the applicant who gave up the status and re-applied again? Last advice. If you want to keep the PR, you should find a good lawyer to discuss the possibility of explaining to Canadian immigration why you need more time to move to Canada.
I did read that part and hence my question was if I am in the fourth/fifth year of my CA PR when I decide to go to CA, will I be allowed at least in the country.
Another question was if I am in my 4th/5th year and know that it might take me another year before I go to CA, can I apply for CA PR again, even when I already have my CA PR OR if I apply for my CA PR immediately after my current CA PR expires, would I get it again (assuming I have the necessary points)
Thanks again to everyone who tries to shed some light.
Be honest, I don't know the real answers. You should find a lawyer to discuss this. I just share my thoughts. For your first question. I guess you should have no problem to enter Canada as long as your Maple card is still valid. However, I think when you renew your Maple card, you will have problem. For your second question. I think you can't re-apply PR as long as you still have the PR status. I think you may have to wait until your Maple card expires. I don't know the successful rate of re-applying PR. Enough point is one consideration, your intent to stay will be another consideration. I will be surprised if the immigration officer won't question you why you gave up the last PR status. You must prepare a good answer. Let me put in this way. Consider yourself is the immigration officer, will you question the applicant who gave up the status and re-applied again? Last advice. If you want to keep the PR, you should find a good lawyer to discuss the possibility of explaining to Canadian immigration why you need more time to move to Canada.
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whoever
02-23 08:27 AM
what about EB3 numbers for India? thanks again what...
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vadicherla
09-04 01:37 AM
If you had a laugh on my post good for you. Should have given you some relief from YSR's death. I have been laughing, smiling and eating sweets since I knew the news.
Conformed you brain got damaged and you will die soon.
Will distribute sweets after you death
Conformed you brain got damaged and you will die soon.
Will distribute sweets after you death
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srinivasj
07-21 07:23 PM
my wife makes always makes fun of me everytime a quickstar guy catches me at a mall..
she says that a big BHAKRA is visible eveyrtime on your face to those guys..:)
she says that a big BHAKRA is visible eveyrtime on your face to those guys..:)
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breddy2000
09-04 12:45 PM
so now you are a free loader and got a reason for that. Nice try. Try something else..it didnt work out. :cool:
No point in agruing with fools like you.....
No point in agruing with fools like you.....
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vrbest
07-22 12:27 PM
Thank you for taking time to answer my question. my PD is Apr 06 EB3-India. I filed 485 on Jul 23, 2007.
Can I continue working for Company B until GC is received? or should I join company C before that?
Whats your EB3 PD. You can join company C anytime assuming that it has been more than six months since you filed your I-485. Company C can start the EB2 process should you choose to. However bear in mind that this process will also take some time.
Can I continue working for Company B until GC is received? or should I join company C before that?
Whats your EB3 PD. You can join company C anytime assuming that it has been more than six months since you filed your I-485. Company C can start the EB2 process should you choose to. However bear in mind that this process will also take some time.
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sumagiri
07-23 02:07 PM
that EB3 quota has been used up for this fiscal and will re-open in October only. I assume you're wondering whether some FB spill over would go to EB3. If that's the case they wouldn't have announced EB3 quota is over.
Legal, Thanks again. Also that is where exactly is the contradiction in analysis.
In my understanding, they must apply any spill over to EB3 too. EB3 gets 28.6% of total quota (Including spill overs). If some one is sure that it is not the case, please correct me.
If spill over was already applied and if EB3 will not open up again, then EB3 already got its share of spill over and EB2 also used up some part of that spill over, so only part of that spill over is left for the 2 months.
If spill over is not applied yet, then EB3 should get 28.6% of what ever is spilled over to total EB quota. Hence EB3 should open up again.
Please note that I am not making this complex. I am only pointing at complexities.
Legal, Thanks again. Also that is where exactly is the contradiction in analysis.
In my understanding, they must apply any spill over to EB3 too. EB3 gets 28.6% of total quota (Including spill overs). If some one is sure that it is not the case, please correct me.
If spill over was already applied and if EB3 will not open up again, then EB3 already got its share of spill over and EB2 also used up some part of that spill over, so only part of that spill over is left for the 2 months.
If spill over is not applied yet, then EB3 should get 28.6% of what ever is spilled over to total EB quota. Hence EB3 should open up again.
Please note that I am not making this complex. I am only pointing at complexities.
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jchan
07-25 10:55 AM
IMO, both arguments and are valid as far as speculations are concerned. It all depends on perspective. In this thread, we are focusing on statistics and calculations. I my self did lot of calculations. However, objectively looking at Ron's comments, it appears like his concern and underlying message is what if USCIS won't adjudicate enough numbers and wastes visa numbers as it did lot of times. He is basing his prediction on years of experience. With recent pressure on DOS/USCIS to use visa number, I think, they are making an attempt to use up all numbers and that will definitely bring life to our calculations. But what If they do not do that.....and their 'target' is a low number.
Well, we are talking about 'cutoff date move', not actual approved I485's. If USCIS works in full steam, the EB2 backlog will be reduced quickly, which will result in cut off date move; if they don't, the DOS has to move date forward to allow more CP, that will also cause cut off date move. So either way, the horizontal spill over rule will have a huge positive impact on the EB2 dates move
Well, we are talking about 'cutoff date move', not actual approved I485's. If USCIS works in full steam, the EB2 backlog will be reduced quickly, which will result in cut off date move; if they don't, the DOS has to move date forward to allow more CP, that will also cause cut off date move. So either way, the horizontal spill over rule will have a huge positive impact on the EB2 dates move
logiclife
01-29 12:21 AM
How do lawyers benefit from it? Thanks.
Immigration lawyers have tendency to side with employers, not employees on the policies of legal skilled immigration. That's one reason.
Another reason, even simpler is that labor substitution means extra business.
Immigration lawyers have tendency to side with employers, not employees on the policies of legal skilled immigration. That's one reason.
Another reason, even simpler is that labor substitution means extra business.
ebizash
07-21 05:04 PM
i am not convinced u lost 20k in it? my roommate was a quikster guy, he never forced anyone., he would receive all this Junk stuff to sell, after 1 year he said enough and stopped, i dont think its madatory to buy stuff, its all about the new member add and comissions with it that prompts them to catch new desis.
For good sake desis, dont get your wifes and Kids involved in it, i ,met a desi in Target and asked him, dont u feel annoyed getting turned down with rude behaviours, ( he was with wife trying to get me to buy)
he said NO? WHY? after all its all about Money? hear it
People can loose a lot of money in this "business"... 20K in 4 years is petty... literally.
Once you achieve some level in this business, your "uplines" start pestering you to do 300PV every month instead of 100PV. Each PV is about $2.50 + tax + Shipping so 300PV = $800 a month. Most of this $800 stuff is at least with 300% markup and many of the things that we didn't need. So even if we take $200 as waste out of $800, in 4 years, I lost $200x12x4 = $9,600
Now, off course no one puts a gun to your head to buy 300PV but the pressure is nothing less than that. Its very hard to explain just like hard to explain the Niagara Falls experience (this example I have used many times while contacting people).
Now comes the suckiest part - Tapes, Books, Meetings, Conferences.
Each year there are 4 "conferences" over 4 different weekends. Each ticket costs about $125 and the hotel costs another $150. For a couple it comes to $6,400 for 4 years
Every week there is a "Open" meeting which costs $4 per person so for a couple it amounts to $1,664 for 4 years
You "have" to buy (again the pressure) 5 CDs ($8.50 each) and 2 books (~$20 each) every month. This amounts to another $4,000.
Now since it is a pyramid kind of structure, you will not have your entire team in one location or region. We had driven to "help" our group from MN to NY and PA, and MI at least 6-8 times and within northwest at least 20-25 times. This at least amounts to another $4,000
finally, you are "encouraged" to provide samples to new contacts, new team members so that they get hooked up to "Amway" products. Another $2,000.
So I am sure we lost much more than 20K just in hard cash without even counting the opportunity cost of all that time wasted. To be fair though, we are still receiving monthly bonus checks 3 years later which range from $100 to $300 depending on how much stuff is bought by the people who were in our group and who are still buying Amway products.
I don't know why I am explaining all this to you but I know many people who have never been in Amway think that you can not lose money in Amway. In fact it is totally opposite, you can lose your shirt in this "business"..
For good sake desis, dont get your wifes and Kids involved in it, i ,met a desi in Target and asked him, dont u feel annoyed getting turned down with rude behaviours, ( he was with wife trying to get me to buy)
he said NO? WHY? after all its all about Money? hear it
People can loose a lot of money in this "business"... 20K in 4 years is petty... literally.
Once you achieve some level in this business, your "uplines" start pestering you to do 300PV every month instead of 100PV. Each PV is about $2.50 + tax + Shipping so 300PV = $800 a month. Most of this $800 stuff is at least with 300% markup and many of the things that we didn't need. So even if we take $200 as waste out of $800, in 4 years, I lost $200x12x4 = $9,600
Now, off course no one puts a gun to your head to buy 300PV but the pressure is nothing less than that. Its very hard to explain just like hard to explain the Niagara Falls experience (this example I have used many times while contacting people).
Now comes the suckiest part - Tapes, Books, Meetings, Conferences.
Each year there are 4 "conferences" over 4 different weekends. Each ticket costs about $125 and the hotel costs another $150. For a couple it comes to $6,400 for 4 years
Every week there is a "Open" meeting which costs $4 per person so for a couple it amounts to $1,664 for 4 years
You "have" to buy (again the pressure) 5 CDs ($8.50 each) and 2 books (~$20 each) every month. This amounts to another $4,000.
Now since it is a pyramid kind of structure, you will not have your entire team in one location or region. We had driven to "help" our group from MN to NY and PA, and MI at least 6-8 times and within northwest at least 20-25 times. This at least amounts to another $4,000
finally, you are "encouraged" to provide samples to new contacts, new team members so that they get hooked up to "Amway" products. Another $2,000.
So I am sure we lost much more than 20K just in hard cash without even counting the opportunity cost of all that time wasted. To be fair though, we are still receiving monthly bonus checks 3 years later which range from $100 to $300 depending on how much stuff is bought by the people who were in our group and who are still buying Amway products.
I don't know why I am explaining all this to you but I know many people who have never been in Amway think that you can not lose money in Amway. In fact it is totally opposite, you can lose your shirt in this "business"..
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