Sunday, August 7, 2011

either or fallacy

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  • sunty
    02-13 07:23 PM
    Hi,
    I like the idea but I believe at this time it is crucial to continue participation in the letter campaign. If we do not get success through it, I will be glad to participate in the lawsuit. Also, like me, at that time there might be hundreds of people willing to be a part.

    Same here...I did vote yes for the lawsuit but let's wait a little for Admin fixes or the scaled down CIR version (if it happens).





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  • alisa
    02-18 12:10 PM
    Also all arguments came out of UnitedNations unfortunately are already present and deep seated in a very large %age of our compatriots....That is the main reason behind the less mobilization......

    I differ with you again, my friend.
    The main reason(s) behind less mobilization is this. Pappu described this on a different thread.

    1) Ignorance about the true nature of the problem
    People like you and I don't know that without a change in the laws, they won't get their greencards for another 10-20 years.

    2) Lack of faith and understanding of the system
    People like you and I, once they know that they are getting screwed, think that the situation is hopeless. They don't understand that the merits of our case (you alluded to them in your previous posts, the demographic shift due to the baby boomers retiring requires skilled labor in this country), is sufficient to warrant a sympathetic ear to us in the congress. We CAN freaking get out of the mess we are in.

    We have to accept these two problems. And then we have to address them. How do we do that? Thats the big question.





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  • nitinboston
    05-29 04:52 PM
    Its time to wake up. The writing is on the wall. I have been stuck in EB3 since 2005 and i dont see myself getting a GC anytime soon. The only way the govt here will realise how much we contribute to this economy is, When we will start leaving in droves.
    I got my PR to Canada in 8 months and am already applying for job's there. I think i am done with this system, there are way too many people running after way few GC's. And USCIS knows it, we are a bunch of brown people sitting on our knees begging for GC. We have become the slaves of 21'st century, and i am gonna break free from it. More of us do so, better it would be. If US wants to loose all educated hard working people to Canada, Australia and other countries, so be it.





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  • akottai
    07-22 02:10 PM
    When we moved from MN to NJ, we were so happy to find so many Indians around. In an Indian store I found a fellow native and I introduced myself. We were so happy that we found a good neighbor whom we can befriend. I gave them my number and got their number back. I never got any response from them whenever I called - ever. Later, I found the menace of Amway in these parts of world(among desis). I was so ashamed just by knowing that they mistook us for Amway people.

    I have been approached by many in Walmart, Macy's and other stores with questions like "are your from Mumbai?", "I have seen your somewhere"... types...

    At one point of time, it became very difficult to distinguish between a genuine smile and the e-commerce business smile! I can now understand why they never attended my calls! :)

    Anyways, I moved to NC - and no more Amways in this part. Not until now!



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  • jonty_11
    07-13 01:21 PM
    mind u with bigots like tancredo winning their district every election, US is not far beind when it comes to RACISM

    Here's an article that appeared in Outlook (India) magazine 8 years ago. Apparently, the situation hasn't changed much since then:

    http://outlookindia.com/full.asp?fname=international1&fodname=19990125&sid=1

    Canada...The Grass Isn't Greener
    Outlook: Jan 25, 1999

    It's a dream gone sour. Thousands of Indian immigrants who land up in Canada are, more often than not, greeted with unemployment, racism, culture shocks...

    SOHAILA CHARNALIA

    "I didn't come here to be a chowkidar. I came here believing it to be a land of opportunity; a country that has never known the nepotism, the corruption, the shortages of India. I find I have only substituted one country for another... certainly not one set of values for another, as I hoped. " For Dr Gurdial Singh Dhillon, who was made to believe his qualifications would land him a good job fast, Canada was a real disappointment. When he did find work, it was that of a security guard. This, when the United Nations has declared Canada the best country to live in.

    Some 200,000 people migrate to Canada every year, a majority from Asia. Hong Kong heads the list, followed by India, China, Taiwan and the Philippines. According to the Citizenship & Immigration Canada report, 21,249 Indians migrated to Canada in 1996 alone. (The high commission in Delhi, however, put the figure at 17,682). For many of them, especially those who are qualified professionals, dreams die fast. The life they face is never quite as rosy as made out by money-raking immigration lawyers.

    Is the UN report the only reason for the increase in Indian applications for immigration? That, and the fact that it is easier to get entry into Canada than any other western country, says a Delhi-based immigration lawyer. Also, the fastest way of getting immigration to the US is through Canada.

    Dhillon's disappointment is echoed by others. "I should have done my own homework before I applied", rues Aparna Shirodhkar, an architect from Mumbai, working as a saleswoman in a department store. "My husband is unemployed. I am the sole earner for a family of four. Sometimes I feel like running back". For Raheela Wasim, who's gone from being a schoolteacher in India to a telemarketer here, the experience was very discouraging, very disheartening. "I started losing confidence in myself. I felt I was not capable of the job market here".

    Jobs are the sore point with Indian immigrants. The irony is, they are often more qualified than their Canadian peers, yet they end up with either no work, or with entry-level jobs that have no future. "I was not told that you require a Canadian degree to get a job here", says Paramjeet Parmar, a postgraduate in biochemistry from Bombay University. Parmar works as a telemarketer, which has turned her from an elite professional to an unskilled, daily wage labourer.
    Ditto Opinder Khosla, a mechanical engineer from India, who has ended up as a salesman. "I found it difficult to even get an interview call", he says. The Canadian authorities are non-committal about the social and economic devaluation that the country imposes on immigrants.

    "You can't come thinking you can just walk in and get a job in your profession", says Isabel Basset, minister of citizenship, culture and recreation, responsible for handling immigrants' woes in Canada's largest province, Ontario. But she admits that the licensing bodies regulating the professions need to be more accepting of people trained elsewhere.

    That effort could only come from the government, argues Demetrius Oriopolis, co-author of Access, a government-commissioned report on assessing qualifications of newcomers, a 10-year-old report whose recommendations have still to be implemented. The report suggests certain rules of equivalence should be made binding on the regulatory bodies, which are exclusionist by nature.

    But Basset won't even hear of making the regulatory bodies accountable: "We believe in private enterprise with a minimum of government checks. Besides, she argues, the exercise would cost millions of dollars".

    Needless to say, the organisations are gleeful. Only professional bodies have the ability to determine what constitutes competence in a particular profession, was the cold response of the spokesperson for the Canadian Institute of Chartered Accountants, an institution that's responsible for the unemployment as well as under-employment of hundreds of qualified chartered accountants from India. They do not grant licences for professional practice, because Indian qualifications are not acceptable.

    "What kind of society are we creating? Is it a new form of slavery?" asks an irate Bhausaheb Ubale, Canada's former human rights commissioner. Qualified immigrants work as drivers, guards. If this isn't job discrimination, what is? Dr Ubale lobbied intensely before Indians were accepted in the media. They now hold jobs as reporters and anchors, he says, but a lot more has to be done.
    While skilled men may not be able to find jobs, their less qualified wives find it easier because they accept whatever comes their way. In several cases, the wives earn and support their husbands who are busy upgrading themselves, by studying for a Canadian degree. The working wife sometimes slogs away at three jobs. Sumitra starts at 7 am at her first job, teaching immigrants English; her second job as telemarketer starts at 4 pm. She gets back home around 8 pm, after which she begins selling cosmetics and household goods door to door. Till midnight. Sumitra supports three students, her husband and two school-going children.

    The other problems Indians face here are the high taxes, high mortgage payments for new homes and the sort of hidebound laws that the benign anarchy back home hardly prepares them for. "You can't run a red light, you can't escape from a hit-and-run site even if you are just the witness, you can't smoke in public. Too many rules, so different from home", says Harminder Singh.

    Two 'Indian' practices that do exist here, however, cause immigrants the maximum trouble. They are sifarish baazi (nepotism) and mufat ka kaam (free work). The Canadians, of course, have given them sophisticated terminologies, the former is referred to as 'networking' and the latter, 'volunteerism'. In a country where you are never encouraged to 'drop in' to meet someone, where the fax, the computer or the phone is used to complete most transactions, a job-seeking immigrant often has the phone put down on him. Polite but firm secretaries block access, unless the caller can drop a magic name that can help him gain entry. It takes at least a year for even the most enterprising immigrant to get to know somebody who can help him, before he can get a job at all.

    'Networking' goes hand in hand with 'volunteerism'. Many immigrants put in a year of free service before they are given the job. Most writers and anchors of Asian origin are given only part-time jobs, paid by assignment and with no fringe benefits. The company insists on the word 'freelance' on their business cards, to make it clear they have not been hired by the company, and hence can't demand higher pay or any benefits. They can, and often are, fired at will.

    Perhaps the greatest problem in Canada is the one that is least articulated--racism. According to a diversity report on Toronto (said to be the most ethnically diverse city in the world), the year 2000 will see its minority becoming its majority that is, 54 per cent of Toronto's population by the end of the millennium will be non-Whites. Keeping that in mind, it warned, if the discrimination against them in education, employment, income and housing, or incidents of hate are not addressed, it will lead to a growing sense of frustration.

    "All our problems exist because of racism", sums up Anita Ferrao, who works in a firm. Anita has worked for them for three years and has got neither promotion nor raise. "As an Indian immigrant, you can never reach the top. They'll see to that. It's better to bring in some money here and start a business. It's the only way you'll do well here and be respected. "
    But then if life is so tough here, why do people give up everything back home and come? The answer is the rosy picture of North America, inculcated right from childhood. Everything 'American' is considered superior. Better food, better homes, better life.





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  • jonty_11
    06-28 06:16 PM
    Visa Bulletin April 2007
    PD for Other workers category was 01 Oct 2001

    E. VISA AVAILABILITY DURING THE COMING MONTHS

    Employment-based: It is likely that the Employment Third Preference �Other Worker� (EW) category will become unavailable beginning in May.

    Both of these issues are the direct result of low annual limits and very heavy demand for numbers, primarily for adjustment of status cases at Citizenship and Immigration Services Offices.

    Visa Bulletin for May 2007
    PD for Other workers category was U (unavailable)

    E. EMPLOYMENT THIRD PREFERENCE �OTHER WORKER� CATEGORY BECOMES �UNAVAILABLE� FOR MAY

    The Employment Third Preference �Other Worker� category is expected to reach the annual numerical limit during April. As a result, the category will become �Unavailable� beginning in May and will remain so for the remainder of FY-2007.

    Visa Bulletin for June 2007
    PD for Other workers category was 01 Oct 2001

    D. EMPLOYMENT THIRD PREFERENCE �OTHER WORKER� CATEGORY FOR JUNE

    A few �Other Worker� numbers which had been allocated for April were returned unused at the end of the month. As a result, a very small June allocation has been possible, for applicants with priority dates before October 1, 2001. The category will become �Unavailable� once again beginning in July and will remain so for the remainder of FY-2007.


    So the VB does in fact indicate that there is only a "small June allocation" possible.
    This is positive info..
    At least nothing like this was posted for EB2/3 categories.....fingers crossed.



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  • cal97
    07-10 12:47 PM
    Wish you all the best. I may follow you too. Have time till Oct 08 to mull on this on-going GC crap.





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  • breddy2000
    09-04 07:47 PM
    dealsnet,

    Don�t assume that things will work like they work in YSR regime.

    If you think that, the discussion does not make any sense to you then keep away. You are assuming that IMV has compromised security. FYI, this is not a YSR forum, nor it his jagir to do a security compromise.

    Wow Mr. Chandu.....Procliaming that he is has access to Admin rights and saying that he is not compromising on the security aspect as this is not YSR forum.....

    This AH has revealed someones full name publicly where no one knows how to do that...except Admins....

    Thats it Guys.......I'm out of this....

    If I'm CHANDUV23, I would have retaliated from my posts so far...Looks like "_TrueFacts" is more offended than "CHANDUV23" offcourse we know both are same.....

    Hats off Man....



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  • ganguteli
    06-04 03:28 PM
    The EAD/AC21 is still only available to those who are July 07 filers. There are many who have missed the oppurtunity. What many people are asking for is for something such that anyone can change a job after some given time, irrespective of Visa number availability. Even for those with EAD's, you are still restricted to be in the same field. So if you want a career move and do an MBA or acquire new skills to change your career, you cannot do that (unless EAD is for a dependent). If this is not pigeoning people, what is.

    No point trying to get EAD for non AOS filers.

    We should rather ask for faster processing of applications, transparency and more accountability.

    EAD also has lot of restrictions and our goal should be faster green cards through faster processing and more visa numbers.





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  • user1205
    02-15 06:31 PM
    probably true but because most of them are on H4 which means someone else in their family is H1.

    I think it was reported that students from India is the largest % of students in US universities.



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  • kumar1
    07-10 12:18 PM
    Dear Friends, I had it... I am moving to Canada in the next 2 months to work for guess who? Microsoft. Came to USA in 1997 for my masters, worked at Legato, Documentum and Opentext. Had to restart my GC twrice, once as the company laid me off and next for career progression. GC is still years years away. Interviewed with MSFT last month and got an offer to work in their Enterprise Collaboration team. MSFT looked at the visa mess I was in and offered me to work in Vancouver. I get my Canadian GC in 6 months and my wife can work from day one. I am abandoning my US dream for good;guess I would be satisfied with touching my 4 year old son's American passport.

    I worked for a canadian company in US and now would be working for a US company in Canada. This is globalization. True Globalization. Any for those whiners belonging to IEEE and its propoganda machine, I would like to mention that I drew salries which were above way above the norm. I am sure I would be drawing more than 2 of his programmers combined. Ron- ask your folks to learn to compete and update their skills. They probably studied studied 'history of mathematics' as a math subject in high school instead of calculus. They were happy that they had the coolest Nintendo games while many like me were burning the midnight old figuring out data structures at Berkeley.

    I hope Berney Sanders and his club of the CIR days are hearing the developments. Berney, fix the broken education system for job protection rather than building fences to prevent legal workers to come to this gifted country. More companies will leave for nearshore if the mess continues. Fix the system by closing the H1B loopholes that a small percentage of companies are exploiting. Don't bad mouth the H1B system which has given you so much talent that you could have never groomed, the talented individuals who have contributed to the society, social security system and what not. Patch the holes in the fence, do not erect a higher fence for which people need to pay $ 5000 to cross. And by the way if you have the inclination and the time- fix the broken LEGAL High Skilled immigration system.

    Byeusa - I read your story and felt like you have written mine. I came to USA in 2000, with a dream...a 25 year old young single guy, having a B.Tech degree from IIT Delhi, full of fire, fighting to do anything. 7 years down the line, only thing that I have earned here is a thick 25 lb bag filled with immigration papers. I avoid even looking at that bag, it makes me feel depressed. My wife, a graduate from IIT, sitting at home on H4 waiting for a day when she will get her work permit. Now I am 33, I am still doing what I was doing at the age of 25. My manager gives me 3 days to finish something and I know I can do it in 3 hours....it has become a physical job, its not a mental job anymore. This is the 3rd time, someone has applied for my green card and I am sure it will never go thoguh.

    Keeping everything in perspective, my wife and I applied for Canadian PR 2 years ago and now we have gotten it. We want to move to Canada, however there are so many things.....daughter, her school, new country, culture...etc. Nevertheless, when I read your story, I felt encouraged and I am going to think harder in this area. I wish you well. God bless you!





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  • dontcareanymore
    06-24 06:21 PM
    ..I am waiting for the punch line. What's the point of this? We all know it...

    Exactly !!



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  • poorslumdog
    05-03 01:23 AM
    :D:D:D

    This reminds me a hilarious movie Burn After Reading!
    I am almost rolling on the floor here...

    Should I say who supports Prabhakaran here are LTTE or LTTE sponsored ? I don't think so:D:D

    You are the only one talking about LTTE or prabaharan. No one cares. Others are talking about civilian..do u know the meaning for that.





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  • DSLStart
    09-14 10:11 PM
    ALL perm cases
    Mar-05 1
    Apr-05 13
    May-05 72
    Jun-05 324
    Jul-05 351
    Aug-05 833
    Sep-05 1172
    Oct-05 1212
    Nov-05 1541
    Dec-05 1771


    If these numbers are to be believed, then EB2-I could advance till Dec 2005 with ease by Dec bulletin, though some stats for Feb & March 05 (regular labor) also needs to be analysed...



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  • Macaca
    01-28 09:11 AM
    This info is useful to novices for survival. Like many other postings, I had never heard about it.

    I feel the legislators are aware of these issues. These are the reasons our bill is having trouble. It is useful to be aware of them and see how we can counteract them in legislation.





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  • immi_enthu
    07-17 12:50 PM
    there are still atleast 20K visas left this year and atleast 85-90% of those will go to EB2 India. this should clear up a significant majority of the EB2 pending prior to 06/2006. As I mentioned before the numbers will be unavailable towards the end of September as all the visas are used up, but by this time most of the EB2 hat are current now will get their visas. the dates may go back slightly in October- probably to mid 2004 like you said, but it will not stay there for long. with all the Spill over, the dates will start moving rapidly in Nov/dec of this year itself and EB2 India will be current by this time next year. I agree wth your assertion that legislative fix is needed to increase the EB numbers and resolve the backlogs

    how did you come up with the 20K number ?



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  • SSSarkar
    06-27 03:18 PM
    Well said...

    EVERYONE ON THIS FORUM :
    PLEASE DO NOT SPREAD RUMORS ! WE ARE ALREADY STRESSED AS IT IS. WE DONT NEED ONE MORE RUMOR LIKE THIS RIGHT NOW.
    IF YOU ARE TRYING TO COME UP WITH SOME SORT OF LOGIC TO SUPPORT IT, PLEASE KEEP IT TO YOURSELF, FOR GOD'S SAKE !

    IF YOU ARE FEELING INSURED, HELPLESS AND WITH NO CONFIDENCE - JUST REMEMBER, ALMOST EVERYONE IS FEELING THE SAME. JUST DONT HIT THE PANIC BUTTON BASED ON NOTHING, PLEASE !

    JUST FOLLOW UP WITH YOUR LAWYER AND MAKE ALL THE DOCUMENTS READY TO FILE AS SOON AS YOU CAN. THAT'S THE BEST YOU CAN DO ! IF SOMETHING HAPPENS LET IT HAPPEN. NO NEED TO LIVE IT THRU TWICE, ONCE NOW AND ONCE IT ACTUALLY HAPPENS.
    PEACE.:mad:





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  • acecupid
    08-16 11:29 AM
    simply racial profiling.

    i dont think SRK is over reacting.. many desis who are accepting that its a way of life suffer from "Slave Mentality".

    When was the last time.. a US diplomat or US socialite was frisked and detained for 2 hrs in indian airports?

    To all the jocks who argue "its part of life"..my advise grow some balls and realize one thing.. no matter how long u live here.. no matter whether u have GC or PC...u will always be treated like third class citizens.

    In the end its the color.. do you know beta.

    for the record.i am no SRK fan.

    Mamooty.. who is he?

    This is racial profiling no doubt, but for good reason after what happened on 9/11. This is an unfortunate aftermath of 9/11 and IMHO a welcome one. If it wasnt for this kind of security we would have had many more 9/11ish incidents. I am glad this is a "part of life" now, otherwise I am not have a life. When you ask "When was the last time.. a US diplomat or US socialite was frisked and detained for 2 hrs in indian airports?", that is a big problem with the state of security in India. Not just US diplomat or US socialite even our own Indian ministers and celebrities dont get frisked or detained. You feel that is right when you hear about so many scandals of the underworld-bollywood nexus or politician-mafia nexus ? Forget about the nexus, its not right even if there was no connection with mafia. Rules should apply the same to everyone.

    The balls you need to grow should be to ask politicians and celebrities to go through security like everyone else back home in India.





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  • dvb123
    02-14 03:00 PM
    Since the lawsuit is about the getting the lost visa numbers it will be a good case.

    4. INA Section 203(e) provides that family-sponsored and employment-based preference visas be issued to eligible immigrants in the order in which a petition in behalf of each has been filed

    The law does not mention anywhere that u cannot recapture numbers.





    grupak
    12-13 03:45 PM
    Then fight for changing that constitutinality. Who made it? Why did they make it the way the made it? Slavery was supported legally way back.. If black community might have thought " They do not have a case" as somebody has created the constitution to suit their own need and "within the framework of that legality" "they do not have a case"... then still we may be seeing slaves around.

    I understand your point that we are not yet "citizens"... but for many fair practices society must not differentiate.

    BharatPremi, as I explained to at0474, I don't see how we can fight a law in a court (maybe we can). If a law is not implemented then we can get justice from the courts.

    For changing the law, we as IV lobby congress and meet lawmakers. This is a different issue from the intent of the OP which was to challenge the legality of country quota. Seems like country quota is within the law.

    I think even as non-citizens we can meet lawmakers and past experience (not IV related) suggest they will listen.





    vadicherla
    09-04 01:31 PM
    Go to your postings in this thread and read what you wrote in "Brain Damage". You wanted to distribute sweets??? How do you feel when YS Jagan grabs what you have in your village? You were supporting them so much, why not advice them to return 10,000 acres of land that he grabbed for Brahmani Steels? Jesus Christ killed YSR, otherwise, they would have grabbed all your village. Be happy, Jesus took him away.

    You dont even talk about my village even in your dreams.. Our village is much happier than before 5 years.. Its all becuase of YSR did for our village.



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