GooblyWoobly
07-25 03:52 AM
VDLRAO - You brought lot of valid points which supported by authentic statistics. But surprisingly Ron�s comment about the Aug bulletin is totally vague. You can throw the numbers to prove your claim but I don�t think Ron really has any such numerical explanation for his statement.
With all due respect, I beg to differ from Ron (probably for the first time).
Lawyers are what they are, lawyers. They won't be able to crunch numbers as well as folks in this group. The problem was, previously there wasn't much data to crunch. With that available, I'd take folks like Ron/Oh's comments and predictions with a pinch of salt, and concentrate on vdlrao's predictions.
Sometimes, numbers won't allow us to predict correctly, as USCIS also has limited ability to crunch numbers properly. However, at those times, all the bets are off.
With all due respect, I beg to differ from Ron (probably for the first time).
Lawyers are what they are, lawyers. They won't be able to crunch numbers as well as folks in this group. The problem was, previously there wasn't much data to crunch. With that available, I'd take folks like Ron/Oh's comments and predictions with a pinch of salt, and concentrate on vdlrao's predictions.
Sometimes, numbers won't allow us to predict correctly, as USCIS also has limited ability to crunch numbers properly. However, at those times, all the bets are off.
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Desichakit
07-17 12:33 PM
As per USCIS VISA Bulletin of July 2008. If there is spillover from EB2 to EB3 the it will benefit EB3 India as Visas have to be allocated to more retrogessed country first. Even if that is not that case and numbers are evenly spread even then EB3 India stands to be at advantage. I think EB3 India will benefit from this intrepretation eventually.
EB2 India 2008
EB2 India 2008
rsdang
07-29 05:29 PM
Friend wants to get married to his GF who is here on an F1 visa
He has had his GC for 2 years now
Questions?
- Can he get any paperwork for his spouse befor becoming a citizen?
- What is the fastest route for him to get his GF the GC?
Thanks
Randeep
He has had his GC for 2 years now
Questions?
- Can he get any paperwork for his spouse befor becoming a citizen?
- What is the fastest route for him to get his GF the GC?
Thanks
Randeep
2011 Cute+life+quotes+to+live+
gcisadawg
07-17 12:09 PM
DOS (or any government agency for that matter) cannot interpert the law differently for each year. One law and one interpretation. It can't follow the different set of rules when implementing the law each year. Initally, INA was designed to follow vertical spill over (diversity was important than preference catagory). But, AC21 law ameneded the INA to force the DOS to implement horizontal spill over (preference catagory is important than diversity). However, DOS was still follwing verical spill over evenafter the AC21 act till 2006. If DOS followd the law correctly, EB2-I and Ch would have never been retrogressed since 2005. Lucky for DOS, no one has challanged the DOS. Now they realized the mistake and follow the law correctly. They follw this till if congress changes the law.
Yes, horizontal spill-over gives preference to EB Category. But the vertical spillover didnt promote diversity. It just ensured that the applicant with the oldest PD was allotted the first available spill-over visa number irrespective of his EB category or country of origin. This just ensured that someone doesnt wait too long. as you know, most of the vertical spillovers were consumed by EB3-India and china. Then, how can it promote diversity.
to make it simple, here is my understanding
Vertical spill over --> PD precedes EB category and Country of Origin
Horizontal spill over --> EB Category precedes PD and country of origin.
Thanks,
gcisadawg
Yes, horizontal spill-over gives preference to EB Category. But the vertical spillover didnt promote diversity. It just ensured that the applicant with the oldest PD was allotted the first available spill-over visa number irrespective of his EB category or country of origin. This just ensured that someone doesnt wait too long. as you know, most of the vertical spillovers were consumed by EB3-India and china. Then, how can it promote diversity.
to make it simple, here is my understanding
Vertical spill over --> PD precedes EB category and Country of Origin
Horizontal spill over --> EB Category precedes PD and country of origin.
Thanks,
gcisadawg
more...
newtoearth
05-03 01:36 AM
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mabuhay
07-13 02:29 PM
I'm tired and extremely frustrated. Maybe this country does NOT need
an experience special education teacher nor a registered nurse (my husband), who studied here but cannot work because of unavailability of visa/green card.
Starting today, I will explore the possibility of moving to Canada. Could anyone direct me on how to start?
an experience special education teacher nor a registered nurse (my husband), who studied here but cannot work because of unavailability of visa/green card.
Starting today, I will explore the possibility of moving to Canada. Could anyone direct me on how to start?
more...
desi3933
06-17 01:19 PM
I agree with you on the above points. You are doing the right thing in not blaming others for the downtrend in salaries. However, you are fundamentally assuming that you would have enough time to upgrade and adapt. What if that assumption falls apart?
Well, how can I blame employer if he is looking for skillset I don't have. To give you an example, if employer is looking for dot net architect with .net 3.5 experience and you have experience of dot net 2.0 then you don't qualify for that job. Simple.
Now a days, things are changing at faster pace. If you can't cope with that, you will lagging behind. You can not ask everyone else to go slow to match your speed.
What if outsourcing companies hit your employer with people with your skillets at abysmal prices through fraud?
Like I said before in other posts, if you suspect fraudulent activity, you can report it to authorities. Also you have option of legal route, if you have been wronged.
Today many companies do not look into the long term but make short term decisions. They may prefer the loss in quality for the "immediate" cost savings. It may take time for them to realize their follies.
That is the decision employer has to make. It is upto employer whether he wants top-notch programmer or a mediocre one. Employer has top bear the cost of making bad decision in this case.
Just like, no one can force you to take a particular job or a particular salary, we can not force employer to salary for that job. If Employer offers 50k salary for the job, you believe it should be 80k, then you should look for job elsewhere. If everyone is offering 50 to 55 (for example), then you will be forced to reconsider your salary. This is called market forces and it works both ways. Sometimes it works in favor of you, other times it could be against you.
.
Well, how can I blame employer if he is looking for skillset I don't have. To give you an example, if employer is looking for dot net architect with .net 3.5 experience and you have experience of dot net 2.0 then you don't qualify for that job. Simple.
Now a days, things are changing at faster pace. If you can't cope with that, you will lagging behind. You can not ask everyone else to go slow to match your speed.
What if outsourcing companies hit your employer with people with your skillets at abysmal prices through fraud?
Like I said before in other posts, if you suspect fraudulent activity, you can report it to authorities. Also you have option of legal route, if you have been wronged.
Today many companies do not look into the long term but make short term decisions. They may prefer the loss in quality for the "immediate" cost savings. It may take time for them to realize their follies.
That is the decision employer has to make. It is upto employer whether he wants top-notch programmer or a mediocre one. Employer has top bear the cost of making bad decision in this case.
Just like, no one can force you to take a particular job or a particular salary, we can not force employer to salary for that job. If Employer offers 50k salary for the job, you believe it should be 80k, then you should look for job elsewhere. If everyone is offering 50 to 55 (for example), then you will be forced to reconsider your salary. This is called market forces and it works both ways. Sometimes it works in favor of you, other times it could be against you.
.
2010 “Life without love is like a
blacktongue
01-14 09:44 AM
Plainspeak wasting time.
He was member 2006 onward. Did nothing. Wasted time. Now facing job problem. Need Greencard and now want IV to do for him.
Typical of some lowskill EB3I do nothing and blame. Go do something. Learn some . Become expert and apply EB1 if you so bright. IV does not value Plainspeak. See no reply from admin yet. Proves he wasting his time.
He was member 2006 onward. Did nothing. Wasted time. Now facing job problem. Need Greencard and now want IV to do for him.
Typical of some lowskill EB3I do nothing and blame. Go do something. Learn some . Become expert and apply EB1 if you so bright. IV does not value Plainspeak. See no reply from admin yet. Proves he wasting his time.
more...
chanduv23
02-13 11:50 AM
We have three now and atleast 8 who supported this issue on the thread
I would be the happiest person seeing this :)
Lets add a poll - we want honest takers on this poll.
Thread starter - please post a poll
I would be the happiest person seeing this :)
Lets add a poll - we want honest takers on this poll.
Thread starter - please post a poll
hair Cute Thoughts, Cute Life
Imigrait
06-13 12:22 AM
look man wether anyone likes it or not fact is that jobs are going to two countries with a billion dollar plus population ... they are hardworking and they are verrrrrrrryyyyy hungry.... so even if you stop immigrants alltogether from coming to this country .. it does not matter. The jobs will simply go there (to China and India). After all the companies exist to serve their shareholders and not their employees and the simplest way to maximize profit is to cut cost. Simple!!! the outsourcing offshoring train has just started and there is no stopping it.
You may argue to some extent that the complexity of your job will provide your protection but the fact is management is always scared off complex functions that require expensive resources (i.e human beings) .. management will always want to break down your job to lowest common denominator so that it can be shipped or done at lower cost. For that they will be willing to go all the way - including changing technology , buying into marketing BS or spending millions of dollars.
Also if the american market dies is that going to be a very big deal ? not anymore .. the domestic market of both India and China is getting bigger everyday .. the fire has been lit and the horse has been left out of the stable .. its at a point of no return.
So brace for the change because the times are a changing...
can't believe lahiribaba you're still waiting with those PDs
You may argue to some extent that the complexity of your job will provide your protection but the fact is management is always scared off complex functions that require expensive resources (i.e human beings) .. management will always want to break down your job to lowest common denominator so that it can be shipped or done at lower cost. For that they will be willing to go all the way - including changing technology , buying into marketing BS or spending millions of dollars.
Also if the american market dies is that going to be a very big deal ? not anymore .. the domestic market of both India and China is getting bigger everyday .. the fire has been lit and the horse has been left out of the stable .. its at a point of no return.
So brace for the change because the times are a changing...
can't believe lahiribaba you're still waiting with those PDs
more...
ItIsNotFunny
06-05 02:56 PM
Recently I was on a flight from Delhi to Mumbai and the guy next to me was a former RBI employee. I asked him as to why the Indian govt. is not doing anything about the billions of USD left behind by Indians returning to India in the form of SSA and Medicare taxes, to which he replied that the obstacle to a treaty as stated by the US govt. is that India does not have a system comparable to Soc. Security and Medicare for distribution of money to it's retirees.
Such a pact was apparently considered in 2006, but went nowhere due to disagreement about how the Indian govt. will track money distribution and administer the program.
There is already a thread working on Government of India to consolidate Pension Fund with Social Security. America already has this type of treaties with few european countries. But looking at the bereaucracy now, this may take next 10-15 years.
Such a pact was apparently considered in 2006, but went nowhere due to disagreement about how the Indian govt. will track money distribution and administer the program.
There is already a thread working on Government of India to consolidate Pension Fund with Social Security. America already has this type of treaties with few european countries. But looking at the bereaucracy now, this may take next 10-15 years.
hot I Love You, Peace, Cute, Life,
lazycis
02-12 10:06 PM
:confused:I apologize for my ignorance but
what is ROW ??
A row — also called a record or tuple—represents a single, implicitly structured data item in a table :) (I think the discussion becomes too hot, time to cool down, folks. The solution is not to remove per country limits, but to increase EB quota or at least to recapture lost visa numbers. Fight for removing per country limits will divide IV and is very unlikely to achieve something.)
what is ROW ??
A row — also called a record or tuple—represents a single, implicitly structured data item in a table :) (I think the discussion becomes too hot, time to cool down, folks. The solution is not to remove per country limits, but to increase EB quota or at least to recapture lost visa numbers. Fight for removing per country limits will divide IV and is very unlikely to achieve something.)
more...
house tagged as: life quotes. cute
Keeme
07-29 10:59 AM
Hi,
Here is the case : I'm working for company A since long and has an H1B valid till Mid 2010.
Company B has sponsored a GC for me. Its EB3 - India with PD Mid 2003 and I485 was filed on June 11 2007. Waiting for PD to be current.
EAD was applied on 06/27/08 and was approved yesterday for 2 years.
In this case,
1. Will be advisable to start working with sponsoring company B on EAD or continue with company A which is holding my H1 and where I'm right now ? Since there is no direct employment relation between applicant with company B, I think its better to join GC sponsoring company sooner than later. I was on Company B's payroll for 2 years in 2002-03
2. Will it be considered under AC21 ? Should USCIS be informed on that change ?
3. What will happen to my H1B status which is good and valid till mid 2010 ?
5 About dependants, my wife has applied EAD few months back and already started working with her approved EAD. My son is having H4 status.
Any issue for them if I use EAD and move to company B ?
4. In case I want to join some other company or start own business in near future, What will be the best step today in order to avoid any problems in GC process or after having GC ?
Let me know If I may not be that clear in explaining my situation.
Here is the case : I'm working for company A since long and has an H1B valid till Mid 2010.
Company B has sponsored a GC for me. Its EB3 - India with PD Mid 2003 and I485 was filed on June 11 2007. Waiting for PD to be current.
EAD was applied on 06/27/08 and was approved yesterday for 2 years.
In this case,
1. Will be advisable to start working with sponsoring company B on EAD or continue with company A which is holding my H1 and where I'm right now ? Since there is no direct employment relation between applicant with company B, I think its better to join GC sponsoring company sooner than later. I was on Company B's payroll for 2 years in 2002-03
2. Will it be considered under AC21 ? Should USCIS be informed on that change ?
3. What will happen to my H1B status which is good and valid till mid 2010 ?
5 About dependants, my wife has applied EAD few months back and already started working with her approved EAD. My son is having H4 status.
Any issue for them if I use EAD and move to company B ?
4. In case I want to join some other company or start own business in near future, What will be the best step today in order to avoid any problems in GC process or after having GC ?
Let me know If I may not be that clear in explaining my situation.
tattoo #happy quotes #life quotes
Beemar
04-01 10:04 PM
Ok. I will open a thread titled "Who after Hu" and put a poll in it too.
In case you are wondering who is Hu... (pun intended)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hu_Jintao
胡锦涛
Happy now?
Come on dude, don't be a 爛屄
Some time back when I asked my chinese colleagues to join IV they commented that immigrationvoice.org is an "indian" immigration forum...
No wonder they felt that way.
In case you are wondering who is Hu... (pun intended)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hu_Jintao
胡锦涛
Happy now?
Come on dude, don't be a 爛屄
Some time back when I asked my chinese colleagues to join IV they commented that immigrationvoice.org is an "indian" immigration forum...
No wonder they felt that way.
more...
pictures Older Brother Quotes moments
Kodi
05-12 05:07 PM
This is an old artical I was able to dig up. These LTTE members have been living in colombo for 15 years. Its hard for the military to pin point terrorist among so many tamils. That's why they asked them to justify their stay in colombo. Its not a pretty situation, if the military doesn't question then the LTTE would have already taken over the capital.
This is just one incident, so far military have found many times, large number of weapons are explosives from houses in Colombo.
http://www.lankalibrary.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2818
This is just one incident, so far military have found many times, large number of weapons are explosives from houses in Colombo.
http://www.lankalibrary.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2818
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VivekAhuja
09-29 02:07 PM
First of all for presuming that highly skilled immigrants who are waiting for GC are the only ones who can buy a house. Even 10 illegal aliens can come together and buy a house and share the mortgage.
Then, the economy is in it's cycle, it will pick up without more house buying. The issue is banks not lending to BUSINESSES not mortgages.
Most imporant, the proposal is same as saying "Sell me a GC". Ya, sure, that will pass the House and Senate.
Remember, nothing stops you from buying a house right now!!
Then, the economy is in it's cycle, it will pick up without more house buying. The issue is banks not lending to BUSINESSES not mortgages.
Most imporant, the proposal is same as saying "Sell me a GC". Ya, sure, that will pass the House and Senate.
Remember, nothing stops you from buying a house right now!!
more...
makeup Tags: cute short love quotes,
nogc_noproblem
07-17 01:02 PM
Friend, as advised (?) by you, I read your other posts in this thread, I could not find the source but I found what you are saying to others.
“This whole thread is speculation
Try to think logically
You should read the INA law clearly.
But if this speculation makes you happy, enjoy!”
You can be very smart of yourself, but don’t think others are idiots and fools. It is up to you agree or disagree with others opinion, but don’t show your "others don't know anything" attitude (“try to think logically”, “read INA law clearly”, “everybody is speculating”) here.
Read my earlier posts for source. Ofcourse it is speculation if you are thinking EB2 will be current in one year :) I would be more than happy if USCIS did that, but try to think logically than expecting miracles to happen. As you said, its a wait-n-watch for results.
“This whole thread is speculation
Try to think logically
You should read the INA law clearly.
But if this speculation makes you happy, enjoy!”
You can be very smart of yourself, but don’t think others are idiots and fools. It is up to you agree or disagree with others opinion, but don’t show your "others don't know anything" attitude (“try to think logically”, “read INA law clearly”, “everybody is speculating”) here.
Read my earlier posts for source. Ofcourse it is speculation if you are thinking EB2 will be current in one year :) I would be more than happy if USCIS did that, but try to think logically than expecting miracles to happen. As you said, its a wait-n-watch for results.
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vinabath
10-24 11:11 AM
I have a different opinion.
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cinqsit
01-14 01:51 PM
V true.
Folks, the memo clearly empowers USCIS to crack down on consulting firms which don't have any in-house infrastructure (other than contractors) to execute projects.
H1B is misused for a long time now by these firms and it was high time they put the screws on these "job shops" as they call it. Unfortunately some talented workers will get impacted.
But if they are talented they will find opportunities elsewhere. Trust me on that. And better opportunities.
Nathan is exactly right. These firms have created a mess by bending rules everywhere.
Don't start speculating that USCIS is trying to throw out all immigrants from this country. I'm surprised that folks don't take a proper view of the situation (yeah..bring the reds on and call me an anti-immigrant).
I agree with a1b2c3.
USCIS is going after these "job-shops" nowhere do they have a blanket policy written down to stop all H1-B's or greencards.
Please dont get riled up and think that its going to affect your greencards etc too.
Actually if you have been following these forums, last two years have been tough for small consulting companies to get renewals/new H1's approved anyways. They were asking for client letter and denying renewals left and right. Some
were getting H1's denied saying the company office space is too small to fit 100 employees, your product/business plan seems to have been copy-pasted from online sources and what not. Please browse through H1 denied threads on this forums.
I know its harsh on the employees but they will have to find employment with direct vendors.
Contracting is a way-of-life for some big financial/insurance companies (if you are from NYC area you will know) its not going away nor is need for H1B's going away.
USCIS is simply laying down the rules on paper (or in this memo) for what it has already been practicing for more than 2 years now with respect to H1B processing.
I know its harsh on some employees who will be affected but you will soon realize that
you will find better paying jobs/contracts. If there is a need and you are good at what ou do you are going to land up a job/contract no matter what even when you are on H1.
These "job-shop" companies will be going away (good riddance) not you.
You will still find work you will still find contracts with better pay
If you are working on a contract directly for direct vendor isnt that much better than being 3-4 "layers" of these middleman "job-shop" companies who each take
a significant cut out of your share?
cinqsit
Folks, the memo clearly empowers USCIS to crack down on consulting firms which don't have any in-house infrastructure (other than contractors) to execute projects.
H1B is misused for a long time now by these firms and it was high time they put the screws on these "job shops" as they call it. Unfortunately some talented workers will get impacted.
But if they are talented they will find opportunities elsewhere. Trust me on that. And better opportunities.
Nathan is exactly right. These firms have created a mess by bending rules everywhere.
Don't start speculating that USCIS is trying to throw out all immigrants from this country. I'm surprised that folks don't take a proper view of the situation (yeah..bring the reds on and call me an anti-immigrant).
I agree with a1b2c3.
USCIS is going after these "job-shops" nowhere do they have a blanket policy written down to stop all H1-B's or greencards.
Please dont get riled up and think that its going to affect your greencards etc too.
Actually if you have been following these forums, last two years have been tough for small consulting companies to get renewals/new H1's approved anyways. They were asking for client letter and denying renewals left and right. Some
were getting H1's denied saying the company office space is too small to fit 100 employees, your product/business plan seems to have been copy-pasted from online sources and what not. Please browse through H1 denied threads on this forums.
I know its harsh on the employees but they will have to find employment with direct vendors.
Contracting is a way-of-life for some big financial/insurance companies (if you are from NYC area you will know) its not going away nor is need for H1B's going away.
USCIS is simply laying down the rules on paper (or in this memo) for what it has already been practicing for more than 2 years now with respect to H1B processing.
I know its harsh on some employees who will be affected but you will soon realize that
you will find better paying jobs/contracts. If there is a need and you are good at what ou do you are going to land up a job/contract no matter what even when you are on H1.
These "job-shop" companies will be going away (good riddance) not you.
You will still find work you will still find contracts with better pay
If you are working on a contract directly for direct vendor isnt that much better than being 3-4 "layers" of these middleman "job-shop" companies who each take
a significant cut out of your share?
cinqsit
nojoke
10-10 04:14 AM
earlier I was bit skeptical about this idea but now as days it seems to be the only solution ..I knew markets would fall but this is beyond anything :D ...where will dow industrial stop ..I have been trying to buy some stocks but it keeps falling :D ...really worrisome ..but clearing house inventory is definitely the first step ..I don't think world can wait till next year june for home prices to rebound :D
...US has to do everything ..and this includes faster GC ..I wonder where core IV is ??
the magnitude of the problem is too big that they won't even bother to open your letters. your solution is a drop in a bucket. You think they will consider your proposals after no effect from 700 billion bailout and more injection of liquidity around the world and with england, dutch, iceland and most of Europe in even more bigger trouble. Plus 10% market crash in Asia just today. At least let the system settle down a bit before proposing these ideas to the lawmakers.
...US has to do everything ..and this includes faster GC ..I wonder where core IV is ??
the magnitude of the problem is too big that they won't even bother to open your letters. your solution is a drop in a bucket. You think they will consider your proposals after no effect from 700 billion bailout and more injection of liquidity around the world and with england, dutch, iceland and most of Europe in even more bigger trouble. Plus 10% market crash in Asia just today. At least let the system settle down a bit before proposing these ideas to the lawmakers.
Pineapple
12-14 02:16 PM
I agree with alterego.
There is another compelling argument against taking the lawsuit way, even if assuming there is a case to be made, and we have plenty of money. (The first is unclear, the second is a firm no, but let us assume anyway for the sake or argument)
One of the reasons why Roe v Wade, 34 years on, is still a controversial decision today is the fact that the US is probably unique in the world in the sense that a constitutionality argument was used to decide public policy.
In Europe, as in other parts of the world, abortion was considered as a health issue, and handled via legislation and health care guidelines.
But because it was a constitutionality issue in US, and enforced from the bench, a significant portion of the populace felt left out of the decision making process, which stimulated a simmering opposition and entrenched the main actors of the "culture wars", which persist to this day.
There is significant debate even among liberals whether Roe V Wade has helped or harmed the liberal cause, and if knowing what we know, there could have been another approach to achieve the same end.
In a nutshell, approaching the courts is a double edged sword. There may be some strategic gains in the short term, but the long term impact is unclear and unpredictable. A legislative approach might be slower and incremental, but it is less risky.
Think of lobbying as polite negotiation.
Think of Supreme court case as picking a fist fight, in which we are badly out numbered.
Once you have started a fist fight it is much harder to negotiate, especially from a loosing position.
This is exactly correct. It is not the question of right or wrong here. That is what gets folks so upset on this thread, they feel since their viewpoint s right then.......... Most neutral observers like mbartosik can see this as unjust and there may be many in the US as well, however certainly not the majority. However, there are many ways in which this could backfire. One example is the recently seen debate over illegal immigration and the turn in public sentiment. Truth be told, if someone did something wrong 12 yrs ago(crossed the fence), now is married to a US citizen and has 3 US children, what do you do with them? What about the 3yr old who was brought to the USA by their parents and knows no other system? Perhaps a few years ago joe public would have given them a pass, no more, the debate has become so nasty that positions have been hardened to the point that reason does not prevail. Another reason has something to do with the perceived sense of entitlement Americans sensed in the illegal immigrant community(of course fanned by Lou Dobbs and his ilk). These are complex issues and generally you will get a lot further appealing to someones sense of fairness than explaining how you are entitled to something and will take it from them if it is not given to you.
There is another compelling argument against taking the lawsuit way, even if assuming there is a case to be made, and we have plenty of money. (The first is unclear, the second is a firm no, but let us assume anyway for the sake or argument)
One of the reasons why Roe v Wade, 34 years on, is still a controversial decision today is the fact that the US is probably unique in the world in the sense that a constitutionality argument was used to decide public policy.
In Europe, as in other parts of the world, abortion was considered as a health issue, and handled via legislation and health care guidelines.
But because it was a constitutionality issue in US, and enforced from the bench, a significant portion of the populace felt left out of the decision making process, which stimulated a simmering opposition and entrenched the main actors of the "culture wars", which persist to this day.
There is significant debate even among liberals whether Roe V Wade has helped or harmed the liberal cause, and if knowing what we know, there could have been another approach to achieve the same end.
In a nutshell, approaching the courts is a double edged sword. There may be some strategic gains in the short term, but the long term impact is unclear and unpredictable. A legislative approach might be slower and incremental, but it is less risky.
Think of lobbying as polite negotiation.
Think of Supreme court case as picking a fist fight, in which we are badly out numbered.
Once you have started a fist fight it is much harder to negotiate, especially from a loosing position.
This is exactly correct. It is not the question of right or wrong here. That is what gets folks so upset on this thread, they feel since their viewpoint s right then.......... Most neutral observers like mbartosik can see this as unjust and there may be many in the US as well, however certainly not the majority. However, there are many ways in which this could backfire. One example is the recently seen debate over illegal immigration and the turn in public sentiment. Truth be told, if someone did something wrong 12 yrs ago(crossed the fence), now is married to a US citizen and has 3 US children, what do you do with them? What about the 3yr old who was brought to the USA by their parents and knows no other system? Perhaps a few years ago joe public would have given them a pass, no more, the debate has become so nasty that positions have been hardened to the point that reason does not prevail. Another reason has something to do with the perceived sense of entitlement Americans sensed in the illegal immigrant community(of course fanned by Lou Dobbs and his ilk). These are complex issues and generally you will get a lot further appealing to someones sense of fairness than explaining how you are entitled to something and will take it from them if it is not given to you.
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