lazycis
02-15 11:52 AM
Thanks for an excellent research and arguments. Some of the arguments are well presented.
Well, if you are not ready to lead and we do not have anyone else to lead then whats the point of forming the yahoo group? Please don't get me wrong, I am just trying to find out the objective of this yahoo group.
The purpose was to jump start and find somebody who is willing to help himself/herself. If there is no such person out of 100+ who voted "yes", there is no point in further discussion. I have enough on my plate (I am still helping a number of people fighting in district an appellate courts). Also I think it's easier to discuss it via yahoo group.
Well, if you are not ready to lead and we do not have anyone else to lead then whats the point of forming the yahoo group? Please don't get me wrong, I am just trying to find out the objective of this yahoo group.
The purpose was to jump start and find somebody who is willing to help himself/herself. If there is no such person out of 100+ who voted "yes", there is no point in further discussion. I have enough on my plate (I am still helping a number of people fighting in district an appellate courts). Also I think it's easier to discuss it via yahoo group.
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maddipati1
07-21 08:22 PM
YouTube - Hardware store scene from Garden State (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPGHjf2GqMQ)
pmat
04-09 10:36 AM
I have some questions about the Canadian immigration application:
1. Birth certificates: They are asking for the Birth Certificates with the application. I and my wife don't have our birth registered in India. Can we provide birth certificates that the Indian embassy sends for this purpose? For US I-485, we were planning to use Non-availability certificates.
2. Experience Letter: Will a notarized letter from colleague work for showing work-exp in India. Please note that I already have over 4 yrs of experience in US after that - for which I will manage to get a work exp letter from my company.
3. Status in US: My H1B is valid until Oct 2009, but I don't have the visa stamped on my passport (last H1B visa stamp expired). Can I send a copy of I-797 to prove my status? Also, my wife's F-1 visa has expired but she has a valid I-20 until Dec 2007. Can I send copy of I-20 for proving her valid status in US?
I would really appreciate if someone can provide insight in these concerns.
Thanks,
pmat
1. Birth certificates: They are asking for the Birth Certificates with the application. I and my wife don't have our birth registered in India. Can we provide birth certificates that the Indian embassy sends for this purpose? For US I-485, we were planning to use Non-availability certificates.
2. Experience Letter: Will a notarized letter from colleague work for showing work-exp in India. Please note that I already have over 4 yrs of experience in US after that - for which I will manage to get a work exp letter from my company.
3. Status in US: My H1B is valid until Oct 2009, but I don't have the visa stamped on my passport (last H1B visa stamp expired). Can I send a copy of I-797 to prove my status? Also, my wife's F-1 visa has expired but she has a valid I-20 until Dec 2007. Can I send copy of I-20 for proving her valid status in US?
I would really appreciate if someone can provide insight in these concerns.
Thanks,
pmat
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walking_dude
02-13 01:57 PM
I know that, I was part of it. Lawsuit will require more than that amount if it gets protracted. Keeping the money angle apart, how many are ready to put their names on the plaintiff list?
We (MI chapter) tried to get two members who were impacted to participate in a lawsuit filed by another organization. It was free for them, they didn't have to pay a dime. Guess what, both of them bailed out at the last moment.
I'm not discouraging anyone here. Someone please conduct a poll on contribution pledges, and active participation. Then we will get an approximate understanding of how much we can raise, and how many are willing to have their name on the the lawsuit.
Show me the money!
But we also have members making $30K fundraising effort successful in 7 days! Hence I believe if the IV core decides to explore the possibility of a lawsuit, we can raise enough money to hire an attorney for that.
We (MI chapter) tried to get two members who were impacted to participate in a lawsuit filed by another organization. It was free for them, they didn't have to pay a dime. Guess what, both of them bailed out at the last moment.
I'm not discouraging anyone here. Someone please conduct a poll on contribution pledges, and active participation. Then we will get an approximate understanding of how much we can raise, and how many are willing to have their name on the the lawsuit.
Show me the money!
But we also have members making $30K fundraising effort successful in 7 days! Hence I believe if the IV core decides to explore the possibility of a lawsuit, we can raise enough money to hire an attorney for that.
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AB1275
09-25 03:51 PM
I have applied on EB2. My PD is Oct 2006. My I-140/I-485 was filed concurrantly. How long do you think is my wait?
oguinan
02-13 11:29 AM
I'm not sure that your numbers add up. There's no guarantee that anybody would receive a green card before their 90 or 180 day I-94 expires. Leaving the US and reentering to remain in status then runs the risk of putting immigration application in danger. In reality - PERM takes a couple of months to complete with advertising, interviewing, preparing documents and filing. The I-140/485 process takes another 6-8 months assuming that there are no RFEs and your case is processed in the faster service centers. This timescale only works for ROW applicants if they meet the EB-2 standard. This is not an easy standard to meet for many people who have worked at the same employer for a number of years.
On a separate note, CIS is supposed to meet a standard where most green card applications are evaluated within less than a year. They claim to meet this standard by quickly approving applications whose dates are current and then not including backlogged applications in their calculations. One more example of fuzzy math at the CIS...
to file a 485 a person has to be in non immigrant status.
The dual intent doctrine applies if a person is on a non dual intent visa and they file a 140 or a 485 and they then try to extend their non immigrant visa. At this point it will get denied. However, as long as they dont' have to renew it (because they have a 485 filed), then they are good to go for the greencard.
it is only an issue in trying to renew a non dual intent visa once you have showed immigrant intent. This would be a person who can't file the 485 but instead has a 140 or 130 filed for them. At this point dos/uscis would not allow them to extend the status or allow them back into the country.
On a separate note, CIS is supposed to meet a standard where most green card applications are evaluated within less than a year. They claim to meet this standard by quickly approving applications whose dates are current and then not including backlogged applications in their calculations. One more example of fuzzy math at the CIS...
to file a 485 a person has to be in non immigrant status.
The dual intent doctrine applies if a person is on a non dual intent visa and they file a 140 or a 485 and they then try to extend their non immigrant visa. At this point it will get denied. However, as long as they dont' have to renew it (because they have a 485 filed), then they are good to go for the greencard.
it is only an issue in trying to renew a non dual intent visa once you have showed immigrant intent. This would be a person who can't file the 485 but instead has a 140 or 130 filed for them. At this point dos/uscis would not allow them to extend the status or allow them back into the country.
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harikris
05-31 01:40 AM
[Hiralal] ... and hence a better bet would be recapture ..
That's a much better suggestion than playing carrot-and-stick on real-estate bargains Mr. Hiralal.
Now, what would really be effective is for our own people that are already naturalized and integrated and assimilated and digested in the US system to stand up for our cause.
Please, do this for us seniors. As citizens and permanent residents, your voice will be effectively heard. Case in point - legislation on re-uniting families. To begin with, family based has nearly 60% more visas than employment based and nearly 80% of the visas available are exempt from per-country limits. And yet, the politicians want to reform family based immigration process because the people at the receiving end are their citizens. There is nothing wrong with it because the wait-time for extended family members are really long too which is a shame. But you see, there are bills that are actively discussed and passed in that category i.e fundamental solutions are being explored.
Why is Mr. Bobby Jindal and likes of him not taking up our cause actively? People use their "humble-background" in campaign times. Why do they fail in holding out a helping hand to people that are stuck in such "humble-background"? Do you see such apathy in other minority communities?
Thanks.
That's a much better suggestion than playing carrot-and-stick on real-estate bargains Mr. Hiralal.
Now, what would really be effective is for our own people that are already naturalized and integrated and assimilated and digested in the US system to stand up for our cause.
Please, do this for us seniors. As citizens and permanent residents, your voice will be effectively heard. Case in point - legislation on re-uniting families. To begin with, family based has nearly 60% more visas than employment based and nearly 80% of the visas available are exempt from per-country limits. And yet, the politicians want to reform family based immigration process because the people at the receiving end are their citizens. There is nothing wrong with it because the wait-time for extended family members are really long too which is a shame. But you see, there are bills that are actively discussed and passed in that category i.e fundamental solutions are being explored.
Why is Mr. Bobby Jindal and likes of him not taking up our cause actively? People use their "humble-background" in campaign times. Why do they fail in holding out a helping hand to people that are stuck in such "humble-background"? Do you see such apathy in other minority communities?
Thanks.
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desi3933
06-15 12:40 PM
I believe in luck in the GC process. Before 2005 PERM process, many folks applied in states where Labor was fast. They were able to get greencards within a couple of years while others were stuck in Labor Backlog centers (http://immigrationvoice.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=67&Itemid=50). Some cleared all hurdles and got stuck in namechecks for years. Until 2007 Namecheck was a big scare. (http://immigrationvoice.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=81&Itemid=61)
Many people could not file in July 07 for various reasons. Some people were born in India but were brought up in other country. Even they are stuck. Some people decided to rise in their careers and changed jobs on H1. While they did rise, but lost in the grreencard PD race.
So definitely luck pays its role.
I agree that luck plays a major role.
Just last year, there were many GC approvals for PD of 2006. For them, start-to-end GC process was just 2 years. Now someone with EB2 2006, the scenario does not look that promising.
______________________
US citizen of Indian origin
Many people could not file in July 07 for various reasons. Some people were born in India but were brought up in other country. Even they are stuck. Some people decided to rise in their careers and changed jobs on H1. While they did rise, but lost in the grreencard PD race.
So definitely luck pays its role.
I agree that luck plays a major role.
Just last year, there were many GC approvals for PD of 2006. For them, start-to-end GC process was just 2 years. Now someone with EB2 2006, the scenario does not look that promising.
______________________
US citizen of Indian origin
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krishnam70
07-11 07:11 PM
Eom
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bayarea07
07-26 11:44 PM
Good One !!!
I was approached by a Quixtar "Business Owner" in Ikea. I had fallen in their trap once before and had to listen to the whole business plan and how I was wasting my life working for someone else etc. etc.
He used his signature opening line: Are you Indian?
I replied: NO
Poor fellow didn't know what to say next.
I was approached by a Quixtar "Business Owner" in Ikea. I had fallen in their trap once before and had to listen to the whole business plan and how I was wasting my life working for someone else etc. etc.
He used his signature opening line: Are you Indian?
I replied: NO
Poor fellow didn't know what to say next.
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syendu1
01-14 02:01 PM
plainspeak,
i know a thing or two about this eb related immigration. i agree people should not suffer for years together to get a perm. res card, and that too, people who may have been in the line ahead of others.
however, i dont think it is just not being ahead that creates this spill over thing. unused visas first go to eb1, then to eb2 and then to eb3. i think, that is correct. now, my view about this categorization is that, eb1 -- outstanding people, eb2 -- better qualified, eb 3 -- skilled but not qualified in terms of degree or experience, whatever. (pls understand, i am not degrading eb3 people, i have loads of very close friends in eb3 who are extremely intelligent and i can tell you, can easily compete with the eb2 guz, as far as knowledge etc goes).
but, there is a reason for this division and just for that reason, visas have to go thru eb2 before eb 3. if that is not the case, they wont put people who go for NIW in eb2, it wud have been in eb 3 or a completely separate category.
u did mention to someone that u dont want to convert to eb2 or something in those lines, but i believe everyone should try to get to eb 2 (get masters, or after getting the experience), there is nothing wrong in doing so. (if u feel that i shud not be giving u advice, then just ignore the above few lines)
i believe some of things people pointed out like visa recapture, not counting the dependents etc are the kind of things where IV should focus energies. this is good for all immigrants
bottomline: i believe it is wrong to distribute remaining visa no.s to eb3 category before servicing eb 2, becoz i thought, the categories were specifically created to prioritize.
and please, bear in mind, i am not saying this coz i am eb2. i thought logically that was correct. and, i do easily qualify for eb 1 as well. just did not care abt a gc. i dont care abt it even now. my thinking: if it happens, good, if not, i dont care, i can always go back home-jai hind.
i know a thing or two about this eb related immigration. i agree people should not suffer for years together to get a perm. res card, and that too, people who may have been in the line ahead of others.
however, i dont think it is just not being ahead that creates this spill over thing. unused visas first go to eb1, then to eb2 and then to eb3. i think, that is correct. now, my view about this categorization is that, eb1 -- outstanding people, eb2 -- better qualified, eb 3 -- skilled but not qualified in terms of degree or experience, whatever. (pls understand, i am not degrading eb3 people, i have loads of very close friends in eb3 who are extremely intelligent and i can tell you, can easily compete with the eb2 guz, as far as knowledge etc goes).
but, there is a reason for this division and just for that reason, visas have to go thru eb2 before eb 3. if that is not the case, they wont put people who go for NIW in eb2, it wud have been in eb 3 or a completely separate category.
u did mention to someone that u dont want to convert to eb2 or something in those lines, but i believe everyone should try to get to eb 2 (get masters, or after getting the experience), there is nothing wrong in doing so. (if u feel that i shud not be giving u advice, then just ignore the above few lines)
i believe some of things people pointed out like visa recapture, not counting the dependents etc are the kind of things where IV should focus energies. this is good for all immigrants
bottomline: i believe it is wrong to distribute remaining visa no.s to eb3 category before servicing eb 2, becoz i thought, the categories were specifically created to prioritize.
and please, bear in mind, i am not saying this coz i am eb2. i thought logically that was correct. and, i do easily qualify for eb 1 as well. just did not care abt a gc. i dont care abt it even now. my thinking: if it happens, good, if not, i dont care, i can always go back home-jai hind.
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GooblyWoobly
07-25 03:52 AM
VDLRAO - You brought lot of valid points which supported by authentic statistics. But surprisingly Ron�s comment about the Aug bulletin is totally vague. You can throw the numbers to prove your claim but I don�t think Ron really has any such numerical explanation for his statement.
With all due respect, I beg to differ from Ron (probably for the first time).
Lawyers are what they are, lawyers. They won't be able to crunch numbers as well as folks in this group. The problem was, previously there wasn't much data to crunch. With that available, I'd take folks like Ron/Oh's comments and predictions with a pinch of salt, and concentrate on vdlrao's predictions.
Sometimes, numbers won't allow us to predict correctly, as USCIS also has limited ability to crunch numbers properly. However, at those times, all the bets are off.
With all due respect, I beg to differ from Ron (probably for the first time).
Lawyers are what they are, lawyers. They won't be able to crunch numbers as well as folks in this group. The problem was, previously there wasn't much data to crunch. With that available, I'd take folks like Ron/Oh's comments and predictions with a pinch of salt, and concentrate on vdlrao's predictions.
Sometimes, numbers won't allow us to predict correctly, as USCIS also has limited ability to crunch numbers properly. However, at those times, all the bets are off.
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Lasantha
02-13 11:19 AM
There's no POW at least where this topic is concerned. Somebody said that as a joke. ROW of course as Chintu said is Rest Of the World
What is ROW and POW, please? I have seen both used in several posts (I am hoping POW is not Prisoner of War:)) Still learning the immigration lingo!
What is ROW and POW, please? I have seen both used in several posts (I am hoping POW is not Prisoner of War:)) Still learning the immigration lingo!
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snathan
08-19 10:13 AM
Another story doing the rounds.....
SRK as usual did not comb his hair and was dressed shabbily...
Immigration officer: Who are you?
SRK with a loud voice: " Im KING KHAN ".
Immigration officer: What......???
Other Immigration officer: Sir! He said he is KING KONG.....
Immigration officer : Guys catch the monkey in disguise......
SRK: Maahaaa Maahaa Maahaa Maahaa Maahaa...
Immigration officer: Sir...Howz the monkey sounding like a Goat????
So this is how SRK was caged in America...
SRK as usual did not comb his hair and was dressed shabbily...
Immigration officer: Who are you?
SRK with a loud voice: " Im KING KHAN ".
Immigration officer: What......???
Other Immigration officer: Sir! He said he is KING KONG.....
Immigration officer : Guys catch the monkey in disguise......
SRK: Maahaaa Maahaa Maahaa Maahaa Maahaa...
Immigration officer: Sir...Howz the monkey sounding like a Goat????
So this is how SRK was caged in America...
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chi_shark
09-23 10:31 AM
dude, suck in your hot air and sit down on the bench.
This is not fair and good idea. what about people waiting in line for years and invested their money elsewhere because of this green card delays or those who do not have enough money and job in this market situation. All of the sudden you are brining this idea. This is not fair. This is kind of buying green card. There is a investment based green card category available for that. I request you to go through that channel if you are rich. Not all employment based green card seekers are rich. Please keep that in mind.
thanks,
aps
This is not fair and good idea. what about people waiting in line for years and invested their money elsewhere because of this green card delays or those who do not have enough money and job in this market situation. All of the sudden you are brining this idea. This is not fair. This is kind of buying green card. There is a investment based green card category available for that. I request you to go through that channel if you are rich. Not all employment based green card seekers are rich. Please keep that in mind.
thanks,
aps
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Kushal
07-27 02:10 PM
Check this. And stop misguiding people
MurthyDotCom : Home-Based Businesses : Inadvertent Unauthorized Employment (http://murthy.com/news/n_hombus.html)
Nobody is misguiding anyone. Talk to your lawyer and find out. Amway doesn't offer you employment.
What you get is 1099-MISC the same you get for your stocks and investments. Talk to your lawyer and find out.
MurthyDotCom : Home-Based Businesses : Inadvertent Unauthorized Employment (http://murthy.com/news/n_hombus.html)
Nobody is misguiding anyone. Talk to your lawyer and find out. Amway doesn't offer you employment.
What you get is 1099-MISC the same you get for your stocks and investments. Talk to your lawyer and find out.
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hebbar77
09-04 06:22 PM
dealsnet,
Don�t assume that things will work like they work in YSR regime.
If you think that, the discussion does not make any sense to you then keep away. You are assuming that IMV has compromised security. FYI, this is not a YSR forum, nor it his jagir to do a security compromise.
True facts: I am with you on your thoughts. I feel the same for OUR country.
Don�t assume that things will work like they work in YSR regime.
If you think that, the discussion does not make any sense to you then keep away. You are assuming that IMV has compromised security. FYI, this is not a YSR forum, nor it his jagir to do a security compromise.
True facts: I am with you on your thoughts. I feel the same for OUR country.
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akred
09-23 12:11 PM
Current homeowners who are waiting for their GC MUST also be exempted from cap. This clause has to be there. Without having any gurantee of getting GC these folks have invested their savings in buying home even when the prices were high, WHY because they had real intent of making US their permanent home. So these people should too be exempted from EB cap.
A better justification would be that doing so will avoid bringing new supply on the market from people moving to their native countries.
FWIW, the home I bought in 2001 is paid off, but I wouldn't mind buying another one if this comes through.
A better justification would be that doing so will avoid bringing new supply on the market from people moving to their native countries.
FWIW, the home I bought in 2001 is paid off, but I wouldn't mind buying another one if this comes through.
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sankap
07-13 11:18 AM
Here's an article that appeared in Outlook (India) magazine 8 years ago. Apparently, the situation hasn't changed much since then:
http://outlookindia.com/full.asp?fname=international1&fodname=19990125&sid=1
Canada...The Grass Isn't Greener
Outlook: Jan 25, 1999
It's a dream gone sour. Thousands of Indian immigrants who land up in Canada are, more often than not, greeted with unemployment, racism, culture shocks...
SOHAILA CHARNALIA
"I didn't come here to be a chowkidar. I came here believing it to be a land of opportunity; a country that has never known the nepotism, the corruption, the shortages of India. I find I have only substituted one country for another... certainly not one set of values for another, as I hoped. " For Dr Gurdial Singh Dhillon, who was made to believe his qualifications would land him a good job fast, Canada was a real disappointment. When he did find work, it was that of a security guard. This, when the United Nations has declared Canada the best country to live in.
Some 200,000 people migrate to Canada every year, a majority from Asia. Hong Kong heads the list, followed by India, China, Taiwan and the Philippines. According to the Citizenship & Immigration Canada report, 21,249 Indians migrated to Canada in 1996 alone. (The high commission in Delhi, however, put the figure at 17,682). For many of them, especially those who are qualified professionals, dreams die fast. The life they face is never quite as rosy as made out by money-raking immigration lawyers.
Is the UN report the only reason for the increase in Indian applications for immigration? That, and the fact that it is easier to get entry into Canada than any other western country, says a Delhi-based immigration lawyer. Also, the fastest way of getting immigration to the US is through Canada.
Dhillon's disappointment is echoed by others. "I should have done my own homework before I applied", rues Aparna Shirodhkar, an architect from Mumbai, working as a saleswoman in a department store. "My husband is unemployed. I am the sole earner for a family of four. Sometimes I feel like running back". For Raheela Wasim, who's gone from being a schoolteacher in India to a telemarketer here, the experience was very discouraging, very disheartening. "I started losing confidence in myself. I felt I was not capable of the job market here".
Jobs are the sore point with Indian immigrants. The irony is, they are often more qualified than their Canadian peers, yet they end up with either no work, or with entry-level jobs that have no future. "I was not told that you require a Canadian degree to get a job here", says Paramjeet Parmar, a postgraduate in biochemistry from Bombay University. Parmar works as a telemarketer, which has turned her from an elite professional to an unskilled, daily wage labourer. Ditto Opinder Khosla, a mechanical engineer from India, who has ended up as a salesman. "I found it difficult to even get an interview call", he says. The Canadian authorities are non-committal about the social and economic devaluation that the country imposes on immigrants.
"You can't come thinking you can just walk in and get a job in your profession", says Isabel Basset, minister of citizenship, culture and recreation, responsible for handling immigrants' woes in Canada's largest province, Ontario. But she admits that the licensing bodies regulating the professions need to be more accepting of people trained elsewhere.
That effort could only come from the government, argues Demetrius Oriopolis, co-author of Access, a government-commissioned report on assessing qualifications of newcomers, a 10-year-old report whose recommendations have still to be implemented. The report suggests certain rules of equivalence should be made binding on the regulatory bodies, which are exclusionist by nature.
But Basset won't even hear of making the regulatory bodies accountable: "We believe in private enterprise with a minimum of government checks. Besides, she argues, the exercise would cost millions of dollars".
Needless to say, the organisations are gleeful. Only professional bodies have the ability to determine what constitutes competence in a particular profession, was the cold response of the spokesperson for the Canadian Institute of Chartered Accountants, an institution that's responsible for the unemployment as well as under-employment of hundreds of qualified chartered accountants from India. They do not grant licences for professional practice, because Indian qualifications are not acceptable.
"What kind of society are we creating? Is it a new form of slavery?" asks an irate Bhausaheb Ubale, Canada's former human rights commissioner. Qualified immigrants work as drivers, guards. If this isn't job discrimination, what is? Dr Ubale lobbied intensely before Indians were accepted in the media. They now hold jobs as reporters and anchors, he says, but a lot more has to be done.
While skilled men may not be able to find jobs, their less qualified wives find it easier because they accept whatever comes their way. In several cases, the wives earn and support their husbands who are busy upgrading themselves, by studying for a Canadian degree. The working wife sometimes slogs away at three jobs. Sumitra starts at 7 am at her first job, teaching immigrants English; her second job as telemarketer starts at 4 pm. She gets back home around 8 pm, after which she begins selling cosmetics and household goods door to door. Till midnight. Sumitra supports three students, her husband and two school-going children.
The other problems Indians face here are the high taxes, high mortgage payments for new homes and the sort of hidebound laws that the benign anarchy back home hardly prepares them for. "You can't run a red light, you can't escape from a hit-and-run site even if you are just the witness, you can't smoke in public. Too many rules, so different from home", says Harminder Singh.
Two 'Indian' practices that do exist here, however, cause immigrants the maximum trouble. They are sifarish baazi (nepotism) and mufat ka kaam (free work). The Canadians, of course, have given them sophisticated terminologies, the former is referred to as 'networking' and the latter, 'volunteerism'. In a country where you are never encouraged to 'drop in' to meet someone, where the fax, the computer or the phone is used to complete most transactions, a job-seeking immigrant often has the phone put down on him. Polite but firm secretaries block access, unless the caller can drop a magic name that can help him gain entry. It takes at least a year for even the most enterprising immigrant to get to know somebody who can help him, before he can get a job at all.
'Networking' goes hand in hand with 'volunteerism'. Many immigrants put in a year of free service before they are given the job. Most writers and anchors of Asian origin are given only part-time jobs, paid by assignment and with no fringe benefits. The company insists on the word 'freelance' on their business cards, to make it clear they have not been hired by the company, and hence can't demand higher pay or any benefits. They can, and often are, fired at will.
Perhaps the greatest problem in Canada is the one that is least articulated--racism. According to a diversity report on Toronto (said to be the most ethnically diverse city in the world), the year 2000 will see its minority becoming its majority that is, 54 per cent of Toronto's population by the end of the millennium will be non-Whites. Keeping that in mind, it warned, if the discrimination against them in education, employment, income and housing, or incidents of hate are not addressed, it will lead to a growing sense of frustration.
"All our problems exist because of racism", sums up Anita Ferrao, who works in a firm. Anita has worked for them for three years and has got neither promotion nor raise. "As an Indian immigrant, you can never reach the top. They'll see to that. It's better to bring in some money here and start a business. It's the only way you'll do well here and be respected. "
But then if life is so tough here, why do people give up everything back home and come? The answer is the rosy picture of North America, inculcated right from childhood. Everything 'American' is considered superior. Better food, better homes, better life.
Each potential immigrant pays at least Rs 2 lakh chasing that dream. Multiply that by the thousands of Indians admitted each year, and further, by the number of immigrants accepted from all over the world, and you hit upon the most lucrative business today in Canada. According to a leading White immigration lawyer here, who prefers to remain anonymous, his own fee is 8,000 Canadian dollars, which comes to Rs 2,38,000. The government levies extra charges.
What do immigration lawyers advice potential immigrants? "Do your homework, before deciding to go ahead with your application. Arm yourself with facts about Canada. And when you do apply, stick to the truth yourself. You won't be in for unpleasant surprises, then. The rest is up to one's initiative and optimism." Indians need that, says one lawyer, as many of them fall into depression: the changes are just too much. But, he clarifies, Canada is the best. Where else will you find a land of opportunity, that still cares about its people? That's what the Indians come looking for. And haven't discovered yet.
http://outlookindia.com/full.asp?fname=international1&fodname=19990125&sid=1
Canada...The Grass Isn't Greener
Outlook: Jan 25, 1999
It's a dream gone sour. Thousands of Indian immigrants who land up in Canada are, more often than not, greeted with unemployment, racism, culture shocks...
SOHAILA CHARNALIA
"I didn't come here to be a chowkidar. I came here believing it to be a land of opportunity; a country that has never known the nepotism, the corruption, the shortages of India. I find I have only substituted one country for another... certainly not one set of values for another, as I hoped. " For Dr Gurdial Singh Dhillon, who was made to believe his qualifications would land him a good job fast, Canada was a real disappointment. When he did find work, it was that of a security guard. This, when the United Nations has declared Canada the best country to live in.
Some 200,000 people migrate to Canada every year, a majority from Asia. Hong Kong heads the list, followed by India, China, Taiwan and the Philippines. According to the Citizenship & Immigration Canada report, 21,249 Indians migrated to Canada in 1996 alone. (The high commission in Delhi, however, put the figure at 17,682). For many of them, especially those who are qualified professionals, dreams die fast. The life they face is never quite as rosy as made out by money-raking immigration lawyers.
Is the UN report the only reason for the increase in Indian applications for immigration? That, and the fact that it is easier to get entry into Canada than any other western country, says a Delhi-based immigration lawyer. Also, the fastest way of getting immigration to the US is through Canada.
Dhillon's disappointment is echoed by others. "I should have done my own homework before I applied", rues Aparna Shirodhkar, an architect from Mumbai, working as a saleswoman in a department store. "My husband is unemployed. I am the sole earner for a family of four. Sometimes I feel like running back". For Raheela Wasim, who's gone from being a schoolteacher in India to a telemarketer here, the experience was very discouraging, very disheartening. "I started losing confidence in myself. I felt I was not capable of the job market here".
Jobs are the sore point with Indian immigrants. The irony is, they are often more qualified than their Canadian peers, yet they end up with either no work, or with entry-level jobs that have no future. "I was not told that you require a Canadian degree to get a job here", says Paramjeet Parmar, a postgraduate in biochemistry from Bombay University. Parmar works as a telemarketer, which has turned her from an elite professional to an unskilled, daily wage labourer. Ditto Opinder Khosla, a mechanical engineer from India, who has ended up as a salesman. "I found it difficult to even get an interview call", he says. The Canadian authorities are non-committal about the social and economic devaluation that the country imposes on immigrants.
"You can't come thinking you can just walk in and get a job in your profession", says Isabel Basset, minister of citizenship, culture and recreation, responsible for handling immigrants' woes in Canada's largest province, Ontario. But she admits that the licensing bodies regulating the professions need to be more accepting of people trained elsewhere.
That effort could only come from the government, argues Demetrius Oriopolis, co-author of Access, a government-commissioned report on assessing qualifications of newcomers, a 10-year-old report whose recommendations have still to be implemented. The report suggests certain rules of equivalence should be made binding on the regulatory bodies, which are exclusionist by nature.
But Basset won't even hear of making the regulatory bodies accountable: "We believe in private enterprise with a minimum of government checks. Besides, she argues, the exercise would cost millions of dollars".
Needless to say, the organisations are gleeful. Only professional bodies have the ability to determine what constitutes competence in a particular profession, was the cold response of the spokesperson for the Canadian Institute of Chartered Accountants, an institution that's responsible for the unemployment as well as under-employment of hundreds of qualified chartered accountants from India. They do not grant licences for professional practice, because Indian qualifications are not acceptable.
"What kind of society are we creating? Is it a new form of slavery?" asks an irate Bhausaheb Ubale, Canada's former human rights commissioner. Qualified immigrants work as drivers, guards. If this isn't job discrimination, what is? Dr Ubale lobbied intensely before Indians were accepted in the media. They now hold jobs as reporters and anchors, he says, but a lot more has to be done.
While skilled men may not be able to find jobs, their less qualified wives find it easier because they accept whatever comes their way. In several cases, the wives earn and support their husbands who are busy upgrading themselves, by studying for a Canadian degree. The working wife sometimes slogs away at three jobs. Sumitra starts at 7 am at her first job, teaching immigrants English; her second job as telemarketer starts at 4 pm. She gets back home around 8 pm, after which she begins selling cosmetics and household goods door to door. Till midnight. Sumitra supports three students, her husband and two school-going children.
The other problems Indians face here are the high taxes, high mortgage payments for new homes and the sort of hidebound laws that the benign anarchy back home hardly prepares them for. "You can't run a red light, you can't escape from a hit-and-run site even if you are just the witness, you can't smoke in public. Too many rules, so different from home", says Harminder Singh.
Two 'Indian' practices that do exist here, however, cause immigrants the maximum trouble. They are sifarish baazi (nepotism) and mufat ka kaam (free work). The Canadians, of course, have given them sophisticated terminologies, the former is referred to as 'networking' and the latter, 'volunteerism'. In a country where you are never encouraged to 'drop in' to meet someone, where the fax, the computer or the phone is used to complete most transactions, a job-seeking immigrant often has the phone put down on him. Polite but firm secretaries block access, unless the caller can drop a magic name that can help him gain entry. It takes at least a year for even the most enterprising immigrant to get to know somebody who can help him, before he can get a job at all.
'Networking' goes hand in hand with 'volunteerism'. Many immigrants put in a year of free service before they are given the job. Most writers and anchors of Asian origin are given only part-time jobs, paid by assignment and with no fringe benefits. The company insists on the word 'freelance' on their business cards, to make it clear they have not been hired by the company, and hence can't demand higher pay or any benefits. They can, and often are, fired at will.
Perhaps the greatest problem in Canada is the one that is least articulated--racism. According to a diversity report on Toronto (said to be the most ethnically diverse city in the world), the year 2000 will see its minority becoming its majority that is, 54 per cent of Toronto's population by the end of the millennium will be non-Whites. Keeping that in mind, it warned, if the discrimination against them in education, employment, income and housing, or incidents of hate are not addressed, it will lead to a growing sense of frustration.
"All our problems exist because of racism", sums up Anita Ferrao, who works in a firm. Anita has worked for them for three years and has got neither promotion nor raise. "As an Indian immigrant, you can never reach the top. They'll see to that. It's better to bring in some money here and start a business. It's the only way you'll do well here and be respected. "
But then if life is so tough here, why do people give up everything back home and come? The answer is the rosy picture of North America, inculcated right from childhood. Everything 'American' is considered superior. Better food, better homes, better life.
Each potential immigrant pays at least Rs 2 lakh chasing that dream. Multiply that by the thousands of Indians admitted each year, and further, by the number of immigrants accepted from all over the world, and you hit upon the most lucrative business today in Canada. According to a leading White immigration lawyer here, who prefers to remain anonymous, his own fee is 8,000 Canadian dollars, which comes to Rs 2,38,000. The government levies extra charges.
What do immigration lawyers advice potential immigrants? "Do your homework, before deciding to go ahead with your application. Arm yourself with facts about Canada. And when you do apply, stick to the truth yourself. You won't be in for unpleasant surprises, then. The rest is up to one's initiative and optimism." Indians need that, says one lawyer, as many of them fall into depression: the changes are just too much. But, he clarifies, Canada is the best. Where else will you find a land of opportunity, that still cares about its people? That's what the Indians come looking for. And haven't discovered yet.
Jerrome
05-12 12:18 PM
No, they know what's going on, everybody know it's not a picnic there in the North, I didn't say that they were un aware what was going on in the North, all i said they are fine where they are, please read what i said. It seems you are only looking at it from 1 angle.
I'm not disputing what channel 4 reported, it's overwhelming for the govt to handle millions of IDP's and terrorists mixed up in 1 big bowl of soup. In any war situation there will always be cases of misconduct as it has happened in Iraq, Kashmir, Afghanistan etc.
Oh and thanks for being sarcastic, it proves a lot.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-8349680,00.html?gusrc=gpd
I don't want to bring the Name LTTE in any context in this thread.
Do i support removing LTTE, Yes with full heart.
Do i support the way SL is conducting this war, NO.
Does my opinion matter, NO.
Can i express my opinion, Hell YES.
It is also not good for SL's Democracy because a dictator is in making for SL. Let me tell you this,after this war on terror is over, SL is going to be ruled by a dictator for a long time. wait and see. Again this is my humble opinion. If it is not going to happen i will be the happiest person.
I'm not disputing what channel 4 reported, it's overwhelming for the govt to handle millions of IDP's and terrorists mixed up in 1 big bowl of soup. In any war situation there will always be cases of misconduct as it has happened in Iraq, Kashmir, Afghanistan etc.
Oh and thanks for being sarcastic, it proves a lot.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-8349680,00.html?gusrc=gpd
I don't want to bring the Name LTTE in any context in this thread.
Do i support removing LTTE, Yes with full heart.
Do i support the way SL is conducting this war, NO.
Does my opinion matter, NO.
Can i express my opinion, Hell YES.
It is also not good for SL's Democracy because a dictator is in making for SL. Let me tell you this,after this war on terror is over, SL is going to be ruled by a dictator for a long time. wait and see. Again this is my humble opinion. If it is not going to happen i will be the happiest person.
pnara2
01-05 06:05 PM
Yes, this discussion is not needed on here! Let us focus on immigration related persistent issues!
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